How do middle-aged woman cope with their diminished value?

[PeppersTheCat]

Aging burdens up all. But particularly women.

We lower in reproductive value. Aging in women is seen as worse than in men. It is expected that a man will be with a younger woman. Women are judged more on looks, which diminish over time, etc.

How do you cope with this?

I'm in a relationship with a man the same age as me, and I find it a tough pill to swallow - that my value is diminished simply by being an aging woman, yet his is largely untouched. I think the power balance will shift as my "mate value" diminishes.

Why not the same for a woman?

It is the same for a woman.

The title of the thread contains a flawed assumption.

Except, continuing on from the last 2 posts here, women will date older men, partly because they feel it's the norm. Partly because men are driving OLD. Stop. I dont mean break up with a good partner cos he is 7 years older but use a bit of wit. If a man is a decade older dont settle. This would over time shift the assumption that ageing is something that happens only to women. That'd be a message for younger women but noBody will ever give it. I am still size 10 with all my own teeth and hair but the OLD men who message me are not attractive to me. If I message a man I consider my equal he rarely replies or if he does it is not with intent to leave the house to meet me.
Never dated an older man so I have never contributed to or colluded with the male devaluation of women.
I felt strongly about that even at 23.
Well autonomy and self suffociency really are the answers I think. I dont earn as much as Id like. I save though.

Sorry haven't RTFT.

I love being a middle-aged woman. When people pay attention to me now, it's because they want to hear what I have to say, not because they want to date me. Everyone takes me more seriously now. And so they should: I'd like to think I have learned a thing or two in the last few decades!

Plus, the sexual harrassment, big and small, has evaporated completely. I was so used to feeling ground down by it (even when it wasn't actually happening I was always expecting it) that I hadn't consciously noticed what an effect it had on me. Now I am free.

Stop centering men in your life OP, and start centering yourself.

Exploring feminism a bit will be useful too.

Tempus except for a man, what else do you want in your life? I think your posts are very sad. Rather than look for a man could you not join a church, a choir, a reading group, a charity, a political party, the league of friends at your local hospital, become a friend of your local museum, attend events at the RHS etc., go on a cooking/painting holiday or holiday tour. You might not meet the man of your dreams through any of that but you will do interesting things and you will make friends. If one of those friends turns out to know a nice man then you will have interesting things to talk about Only last month at a party I had a lovely chat with a very nice man about all sorts of things including homelessness (i volunteer at a shelter). He had lost his wife the year before although he didn't tell me that. Our hostess did when she told me his story over coffee last week.

I am married but meet really nice men all the time some of them are divorcednor widowed. Whether they would be interested in me I have no idea but I can vouch for the fact they are out there and enjoy a chat and a laugh. I just don't think dating websites is the way one meets a kindred spirit.

Gilead has it right. I'm divorced, menopausal and curvy. Having the best time of my life. Truely free to live my life the way I want. No BS . And no shortage of attention. I am awesome from within. I feel it and I know it and others want to be part of that. I was always afraid before. Not now. I am glorious. Middle age is incredible !

I'm surprised you think my posts are sad. Wow. That's a bit startling. I feel like I honestly acknowledge the obstacles that are in the way of me getting to the exact place that would be ideal for me but I'm far from sad. Feeling sad i mean. I know I'll get more.

I want

1. more freedom
2. to be included in a circle of friendship of some sort. (i am being proactive in the mean time, I have joined a couple of things and have made at least one friend that I could confide anything too and she is in similar circs, similar age, and I will value and nurture that friendship even though she has less freedom than I do as her dc dad live abroad and her dc younger
3. I want the money to make the 'cave' (house) i see myself wanting to take comfort from in the future being more luxurious than it is now. Shallow perhaps but I want not just security but luxury and comfort from my home.
4. I want to know somebody will give a shit if I die. I want a witness to my life because it is worth witnessing

not. sad. at. all.

ps, I think you're right, about dating sites, but I don't consider the three years I spent on line looking a waste. I learned some valuable lessons, I know that I can connect (ie, it's not me!, it's them!) and I learnt that even if I'm dumped by somebody fickle I will be over it in 72 hours because I do have my own life that I'm still building.

People have consistently mentioned autonomy and financial independence and I completely agree with that and will be saving so that I have more options in my genuine old age! I also consider myself lucky rather than sad as I have at least two artistic inclinations that give me a lot of pleasure and don't require another person present. Don't want to elaborate.

It's kind of like mental health though. As eleanor oliphant says, the correct answer to how are you is ''I'm fine''. The answer is not ''well I am a single woman in her late forties with no freedom to meet people''

*By believing I am as hot as fuck and knowing I'm shit hot at my job.
*
This!

It only really matters if you plan on playing the field. If you are happy enough in your relationship then it is just about coming to peace with yourself.

I'm 53. Until last year I looked good for my age and possible a few years younger. Then after a diagnosis of cancer and and bod deforming surgery I have really lost my mojo and hate the way I look. I know it's better than the alternative (being dead) but looks matter to me and it is very hard to deal with.
Part of me feels I should just give up and accept the fact I am middle aged but I find it hard. It's not that I really bother what men think, I am not trying to look attractive to the opposite sex, I just want to look good for myself again.

"It only really matters if you plan on playing the field. If you are happy enough in your relationship then it is just about coming to peace with yourself."

Eh? What if someone is single and wants to find a man?

I love my middle-aged invisibility shield. It gives me more freedom than I had when I was younger.

Eh? What if someone is single and wants to find a man?

Well yeah, quite! I’m in my mid-forties and single, with zero interest in ‘playing the field, but would also like to not be on the scrap-heap just yet. (Maybe in denial?! )

Tempus why do you need a man to create a comfortable home? I made every home I had from the age of 20 as comfortable as it could be. By the time I got married at 31 I had a lovely house and all the trimmings due to my own efforts. When I was ready to get married I did it for love. At the time DH didn't have the proverbial pot - and no I don't think he married me for my money. I think a man might at my age now though which is why I don't think I'd entertain another man if anything happened to DH.

Diminished Value?

Bloody hell. What century are you living in OP?

I'm well past middle age, unless I'm going to live to 138, and I don't feel diminished.

How do you judge that? Diminished in what way? As a baby producing machine, as a sexually desirable being for men to look at?

I think I was a physically attractive woman when I was younger; hard to know how other see you really, but unless that's the only measure by which a woman views herself, why would middle age make her feel her value as a person diminishes as she ages?

If a woman doesn't have a man in her life, does that mean she's totally without value according to those standards?

Don't know why I've got so many questions. The idea is complete and utter tosh.

Oh, and do middle aged men feel their value is diminished? Probably not, they're men after all.

Being able to attract a man is not what defines a woman as a valued human being.

I'm someone's who always had the confidence that people are mentioning. But I lost it when I almost died and became seriously ill aged 48.

Being that confident and not caring what men thought when very young meant I have had a lifetime of men seeing me as difficult because I didn't pander to them.

Though just crushed generally due to pain levels I was pleased to feel the old spark of me recently. When I called a male friend well more of an acquaintance through shared hobby out on a msg he sent me that was dodgy. He didn't like being called out and got very uppity and called me uptight. It fortunately reminded me of what I was like before illness.

I made me think of all the times I was harassed when younger and how I did stand up for myself. The things I was called, ice maiden, prude, uptight, stuck up and a host of less salubrious things.

I am 54. I have a FWB age 30. In the last six months five men of various ages have asked me out for dinner. I said no. I cope very well with my diminishing value thank you.
Just to add, I don't place as much importance on my looks as I used to. However i look young for my age.
As far as fertility I never wanted kids and a man who wanted them simply isnt for me.
I don't work so can't testify how my advancing years affect that.
My life is fine right now.

"Being able to attract a man is not what defines a woman as a valued human being."

Of course not, but what if you do want to attract a man?

It's not so much age as 'attractiveness' that bothers me. I feel invisible nowadays. As a woman, if you aren't attractive you are invisible, whatever your age. I'd like to be noticed, but not in a sexual way.! Young men especially ignore you if they don't find you attractive; subconsciously. If I try to buy a drink at a bar, for example. Or when doing a class and you are meant to pair up and the younger men move away to talk to the pretty young thing.

Is my value diminishing? To whom?

At work my qualifications, skills and experience make me as valuable as ever.

I still get attention from men but I'm happily married so that's an irrelevance and I certainly don't define myself by the attentions of others.

I'm late 40s, biologically I could possibly have more children but why the heck would I want to go through all that again?

My children are adults, they don't need me to change their nappies anymore but they still value me, they ask for my help about anything and everything.

I have a good career, a good relationship, family, friends and a good life. It wasn't always like this, not by any means and I never forget how lucky I am.

Diminishing value? I think it's a load of old toot. Everyone human has equal value.

There's always been a superficial attraction to good looks and usually the younger generation are blessed with them, and older generations do what they can to retain them (if they were lucky enough to have them in the first place).
A good looking woman might turn the eye of more men, just as a handsome man might attract the eye of the ladies, but without any personality or character, their initial appeal quickly fades.
If you have a sense of humour, can laugh at yourself, can hold a conversation and not be too opinionated on every subject, then you have 90% of the ingredients of attraction (imo). You just need a chance to exhibit those characteristics. You're not going to get that chance at a queue for the bar.

The other 10% is chemistry - that special ingredient that you just can't define. It makes the difference between 'I really like this lady / man' and 'I want to know a LOT more about this lady / man'.

If you are not physically attractive, you are not invisible, you perhaps just feel you are. You might also give off a negative vibe because you're lacking in confidence or appear gloomy / negative.
It's perhaps too much to expect a host of younger men to fawn over you when there are younger women around too, much as is the case for older men and younger women, but invisible you are most certainly not.

Nothing wrong with wanting to attract a man Gwen; my most passionate relationship started when I was in my early 50s. But not having one or not being able to attract a man doesn't mean a woman should feel diminished.

Young men will be attracted to young women Missymarmite that's how the human race manages to continue. Not having the attention of young men doesn't mean a middle aged woman is having to 'cope with her diminished value' as a person.

Older people, women in particular, do become 'invisible' in the eyes of the young. But are the opinions of young men and women the only yardstick by which older women should measure themselves?

I don't care if young men ignore men, I tend to ignore them.

What diminished value? I don't need to be validated by others. I know I'm awesome!!!!

I guess I would feel it more if I were single and wanted to partner up.