To wonder what the world is coming to when the Daily Fail comments section shows more tolerance and understanding than Mumsnet

[worldsupsidedown]

So, I've name changed as I am thoroughly ashamed of having clicked on the side bar of shame, also having been reading an article in the DM at all.

However, there is a story about a very sweet couple - both, wait for it transpeople .

He was a woman and she was a man, they are young and in love, hard working, successful and when you scroll down to the comments are widely accepted by the readers. I mean these readers are generally considered to be the most closed minded and prejudiced people, but EVEN they are OK with it. Because you know what, it is OK.

However, here on Mumsnet no, no. no. He (the transman who was born a woman) would have to come and change alongside your children, get changed in your female only changing rooms, be in your 'safe spaces'. She (the very beautiful, very feminine transwoman who was born a man) would have to go and change with the men, wouldn't be allowed to use the ladies, wouldn't be allowed to access rape crisis if she was assaulted in those places....if you all got your way.

How the fuckity fuck can anyone justify their batshit opinions of that, the world has gone mad if you think that these people are not allowed to live their lives as the gender they identify with because of your petty prejudice and bigotry. Essentially it is none of your business.

So, AIBU to think WTF is going on when the DM and their readership is a more tolerant and accepting place than here?

Lily Madigan is the boss of all trans people.
No they aren't. And the OPs of the threads you mentioned aren't the boss of mumsnet either. So your point is?

Aw, I'm pleased to see some love for these two on the Fail's comments section too ( thanks for the screenshot, no way I was visiting the site!). Predictable down votes though but I guess you can't have it all.

LOL at "there's no hate, I see no transphobia on Mumsnet" - I mean seriously, LOL!

Now if you've never had a thread deleted and you aren't responsible for posts breaking talk guidelines over and over again then chill your boots, I'm not talking about you!

But anyone who doesn't notice the regular occurrence of disappearing posts - and more often disappearing threads! - is either wilfully blind or isn't paying attention.

Be under no illusions that there is a fine line, and some among us cross it. Often. You're only lying to yourself if you insist on holding the telescope up to your blind eye and declaring "I see no ships!".

I can't ever understand these threads. If you actually read the feminism section on here you will find people spelling out their concerns quite clearly. The issue isn't with trans people. The best of luck to this couple. I hope they have a long and happy life together. Their lovely story doesn't negate the fact that there are legitimate issues around self id.

It's really not that hard to grasp. It's not about hate or bigotry. That there are trans people taking part in the debate on the feminism board, and relatives and friends of trans people should tell you something.

The point that that particular point is that the entire trans community shouldn't be held responsible for the words of one idiot.

The point of the whole post is that when you get so many threads focusing in a negative way on a tiny proportion of the population, it becomes harder to say that there is no prejudice behind it.

It's a transparent attempt to push a petition by frightening people.

It's nice to see that transpeople can find love and a relationship.

Sometimes it's with other transpeople. Sometimes it isn't.

The headline in the Sun is awful. But to be expected.

If you actually read the feminism section on here you will find people spelling out their concerns quite clearly. The issue isn't with trans people.

I read the feminist section all the time, I can assure you some the issue is quite frequently with transpeople.

Perhaps head back to the feminist section and look up all the posts pointing out how self-ID will impact almost nothing (except all women shortlists and maybe prisons) - and this is from the gender critical posters.

You do realise that this couple are in the papers because of their looks and that there will be happily married trans people all over the country.

MN isn't against trans people. They are against transgender politics and activism. Unlike gay or civil rights, it impacts women hence people being vocal about it. If the people in power allowed proper discussion and dialogue with women about how transgender rights will affect them, there would be less posts on here about it. However, the people in power are afraid to be viewed as bigots so are not asking questions that women want answered. They are not treating TRA intimidation seriously so people are scared to ask questions about where things are headed. Nobody here is advocating bullying trans people. They just don't want to be bullied by TRAs.

MN is probably one of the most pro-boys in pink sparkly dresses places that you'll find. As a collective parenting place MN realise that the boy who loves twirling in Disney Princess dresses is as much as a boy as the one who plays football every chance he gets. Transgender politics that is creeping into every day life is starting to label the first boy as a girl which is unacceptable. Whether that boy ends up as a dancer in sequins or a tradesman on a building site, he is a man.

You’re running late, Op. I remember the Daily Mirror running a similar story in the 80s and it crops up now and then in other media outlets. Most people just shrug and get on with their lives.

It’s really not the novelty you think it is.

The issue isn't with trans people.

Then why are they brought up, in such a negative light, so often?

I read the feminist section all the time, I can assure you some the issue is quite frequently with transpeople

I think a thread saying that transpeople who have transitioned and who have had surgery and being accepted into single sex spaces would get a very different response in AIBU, feminism or Chat.

That would be an interesting experiment.

TBH when the OP lost me when she said she wants MN to be more like penis beaker

Stillscreaming I don't think anyone holds the entire trans community responsible for Lily Madigan's tweets. However, Lily does hold a position in the Labour party that is relevant to women, and therefore their tweets (and other social media) are open to scrutiny. Perhaps there would be less discussion on mumsnet if Lily didn't block people who try to discuss relevant issues on twitter.
Now, taking your other examples into account, I can only really recall the mothers day cards one which I posted on myself, and there certainly wasn't a consensus of opinion on that one. Many people (including myself) were quite laid back about the whole thing and told the OP so.

I think you're being a little bit optimistic if you think that the DM and it's usual commentators are tolerant and accepting of transgender people. Or if you like, more tolerant and accepting than all of the users of Mumsnet.

MN isn't against trans people.

Ah, the hive mind. No undesirable has ever posted here. No transphobes. Ever!

If the people in power allowed proper discussion and dialogue with women about how transgender rights will affect them, there would be less posts on here about it.

For the proposed changes in the law, the government have consulted over 250 organisations, including Rape Crisis, Women's Aid and relevant sections of the medical profession. I like it that government consult proper, professional organisations and not people who imagine they are qualified to answer questions on the basis of having read something on Mumsnet that may or may not have any basis in fact.

@RatRolyPoly the only posts I’ve noticed being pulled on the Feminism boards have been ones that MN deem deliberately misgendering (some accidental, some not) or include outing/sensitive information that has been pulled for fear of being doxxed by TRAs funnily enough despite being nasty Terfs it’s not us regularly doing the doxxing I’ve not seen any trans threads on Feminism boards pulled, maybe I’ve missed it but I lurk regularly enough so I’d like to think I’d notice.

@Stillscreaming do you have a reference for the organisations that the government have consulted? I'd like to see the full list of 250 plus.

However, Lily does hold a position in the Labour party that is relevant to women, and therefore their tweets (and other social media) are open to scrutiny.

She is a Constituency Labour Party women's officer, name me one other that you've ever heard of. Just one, without googling.

Anyone who has used their penis to commit a crime is not a woman, nor should they be treated as such. That is my current opinion.

Thanks @Stillscreaming, that's helpful.

I've googled and can't find a list.

worldsupsidedown, please could you tell us precisely who on Mumsnet is not OK with this couple getting married?

Have I missed a thread where hundreds of people were saying how terrible it was?

Or are you just making it all up?

@ Mercison

Well, I hope, that if you haven't managed to find the report, you haven't been unwise enough to offer an opinion on it. I've just found it and I was wrong, it was 208 organisations who gave written evidence not 250. The are all listed.