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AIBU?

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Original poster

To wonder what the world is coming to when the Daily Fail comments section shows more tolerance and understanding than Mumsnet

486 replies

worldsupsidedown · 27/03/2018 10:09

So, I've name changed as I am thoroughly ashamed of having clicked on the side bar of shame, also having been reading an article in the DM at all.

However, there is a story about a very sweet couple - both, wait for it transpeople .

He was a woman and she was a man, they are young and in love, hard working, successful and when you scroll down to the comments are widely accepted by the readers. I mean these readers are generally considered to be the most closed minded and prejudiced people, but EVEN they are OK with it. Because you know what, it is OK.

However, here on Mumsnet no, no. no. He (the transman who was born a woman) would have to come and change alongside your children, get changed in your female only changing rooms, be in your 'safe spaces'. She (the very beautiful, very feminine transwoman who was born a man) would have to go and change with the men, wouldn't be allowed to use the ladies, wouldn't be allowed to access rape crisis if she was assaulted in those places....if you all got your way.

How the fuckity fuck can anyone justify their batshit opinions of that, the world has gone mad if you think that these people are not allowed to live their lives as the gender they identify with because of your petty prejudice and bigotry. Essentially it is none of your business.

So, AIBU to think WTF is going on when the DM and their readership is a more tolerant and accepting place than here?

OP posts:
YourWanMajella · 27/03/2018 21:39

The entire medical profession don't think that trans women are men

The vast majority of them think exactly that, since it is biologically true. Medical people tend to be quite big on biology.

Mercison · 27/03/2018 21:41

No, but there have been posters who couldn't stop themselves from pointing out that the happy couple were 'born a man' and 'born a woman'. There's no need for that

Why? That's how it was reported and its factually correct.

Mercison · 27/03/2018 21:41

And let's face it, it's the only reason their marriage is at all noteworthy.

Stillscreaming · 27/03/2018 21:44

This website, among others. They have divided them into categories.

That's hardly a reputable source but, in all honestly, I'm seeing a few of those posts as ironic. Why would anyone argue for the right to be a woman and for the voting rights of women to be taken away?

Stillscreaming · 27/03/2018 21:47

No medical professional I know believes people with XY chromosomes are female and indeed believing that would require them to jettison their training as far back as gcse biology.

But most people recognise that there is a difference between sex and gender. For example, Simone de Beauvoir, the mother of modern feminist said:

"“One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman.”

NoSquirrels · 27/03/2018 21:49

No, but there have been posters who couldn't stop themselves from pointing out that the happy couple were 'born a man' and 'born a woman'. There's no need for that.

Come ON! That was the WHOLE ENTIRE POINT OF THE ORIGINAL ARTICLE!

Mercison · 27/03/2018 21:49

Yes, sex is fixed and gender is a social construct. Your point being?

Stillscreaming · 27/03/2018 21:50

Why? That's how it was reported and its factually correct.

Firstly, I was replying to a poster who said no one had been anything but positive.

Secondly, no one is born a man or a woman. Boy babies and girl babies are born.

Thirdly, some happy couples are fat and ugly, decent people don't point this out to them on their wedding day, no matter how factually correct it is.

Mercison · 27/03/2018 21:50

Simone de Beauvoir, the mother of modern feminist said: “One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman.”

Lol

I don't think she meant anyone with a dick could become one.

Wheresmyfuckingcupcake · 27/03/2018 21:51

There is certainly a difference between sex and gender. One is a matter of biological fact. The other is not and many of us reject it altogether.
Your assertion was that doctors believe trans women are female. That is untrue.

YourWanMajella · 27/03/2018 21:52

"“One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman

Yes, because you are a woman as an adult, you can't be born one! You are born female: a girl.

Mercison · 27/03/2018 21:52

So it would have been better to say born male and born female?

NoSquirrels · 27/03/2018 21:53

some happy couples are fat and ugly, decent people don't point this out to them on their wedding day, no matter how factually correct it is.

Unless those fat and ugly people are spokespeople for a charity promoting obesity and cosmetic surgery to look ‘ugly’ and actively court the papers to provide coverage of their wedding. In that scenario, people might well comment.

Stillscreaming · 27/03/2018 21:53

Yes, sex is fixed and gender is a social construct. Your point being?

Please lay before me your evidence that gender is an entirely social construct. I don't want any feezs, from a social scientist, I want proper evidence from a proper scientist.

YourWanMajella · 27/03/2018 21:54

Thirdly, some happy couples are fat and ugly, decent people don't point this out to them on their wedding day, no matter how factually correct it is

They would if they were telling the press "we are beautiful and thin and its factually incorrect to say we are fat and ugly, how dare you!"
We'd all be saying it then.

This couple are saying that it is untrue in fact that the bride used to be a man and the groom used to be a woman, even though that is the whole premise of them taking their story to the press!

Stillscreaming · 27/03/2018 21:54

I don't think she meant anyone with a dick could become one.

Do you not? As someone communicating with the dead, do you have any hints on the lottery numbers?

Mercison · 27/03/2018 21:55

It's what I believe stillscreaming

I don't know why you demand scientific facts. You don't seem to be able to grasp them as it is.

Stillscreaming · 27/03/2018 21:55

Your assertion was that doctors believe trans women are female. That is untrue.

No, I said woman, I didn't say female.

thanksjaneshusbandatcaresouth · 27/03/2018 21:56

poster PeanutButterSquash Tue 27-Mar-18 17:08:49

Hi peanut,

Thanks for posting. Very interesting to read your post.

YourWanMajella · 27/03/2018 21:56

Do you not? As someone communicating with the dead, do you have any hints on the lottery numbers?

One only has to read the work the quote comes from (rather than get it from a cereal packet or wherever you read it). No clairvoyance needed at all.

Wheresmyfuckingcupcake · 27/03/2018 21:57

Still screaming, I infer from your last post that you are asserting that the existence of gender, as distinct from sex, can be evidenced. If so, surely the onus is on you to provide the scientific evidence for that?

Stillscreaming · 27/03/2018 21:57

I don't know why you demand scientific facts. You don't seem to be able to grasp them as it is.

You're presenting what you believe as fact. I'm pointing out that it isn't.

Wheresmyfuckingcupcake · 27/03/2018 21:59

You’re pointing it out it not offering anything other than assertion. Where is the evidence that gender is anything other than a social construct - one which, moreover, changes over time?

Irishfeminist · 27/03/2018 22:01

Christ if I see de Beauvoir wilfully misunderstood one more time...Read the fucking book Angry Too much to expect from people who get their feminism off Tumblr.

Wheresmyfuckingcupcake · 27/03/2018 22:01

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