To wonder what the world is coming to when the Daily Fail comments section shows more tolerance and understanding than Mumsnet

[worldsupsidedown]

So, I've name changed as I am thoroughly ashamed of having clicked on the side bar of shame, also having been reading an article in the DM at all.

However, there is a story about a very sweet couple - both, wait for it transpeople .

He was a woman and she was a man, they are young and in love, hard working, successful and when you scroll down to the comments are widely accepted by the readers. I mean these readers are generally considered to be the most closed minded and prejudiced people, but EVEN they are OK with it. Because you know what, it is OK.

However, here on Mumsnet no, no. no. He (the transman who was born a woman) would have to come and change alongside your children, get changed in your female only changing rooms, be in your 'safe spaces'. She (the very beautiful, very feminine transwoman who was born a man) would have to go and change with the men, wouldn't be allowed to use the ladies, wouldn't be allowed to access rape crisis if she was assaulted in those places....if you all got your way.

How the fuckity fuck can anyone justify their batshit opinions of that, the world has gone mad if you think that these people are not allowed to live their lives as the gender they identify with because of your petty prejudice and bigotry. Essentially it is none of your business.

So, AIBU to think WTF is going on when the DM and their readership is a more tolerant and accepting place than here?

It's so telling that people are saying 'Just go back to the light-hearted threads!' I've been around Mumsnet for many years now. In all that time there was never a time when it was just about funny threads. It's always been a mix. The Relationships board has done sterling work in making women question whether they should stay in abusive relationships. All sorts of heavy stuff has been debated. Threads like penis beaker have always just been one strand in a very colourful weave.

Yet another self declared trans ally who has zero clue how trans people are being treated by trans activists. Don't pretend ypu give a shiny shit about trans people OP. If you did you would attempt to educate yourself about them and who is really on their side.
My child has genuine dysphoria and like many trans people has been treated appallingly by the trans lobby and supporters of organisations such as Mermaids. Guess where our family found support for our trans child? The so called terfs of mumsnet.
Trans ally my arse.

Op:

Vanishingly few people in here are anti ‘two law abiding people getting married’
Very few people on here have any kind of personal objection or hatred towards trans people.
we are worried about self ID

The couple in the article - good luck to them, hope they have a long and happy marriage and wish them well. The story is not about self id, and self ID is what I’m worried about.

Sparkles? Not really, but thanks all the same. I don't need to see misogynist profiles

Whosrightsareright

hope your dc is okay? Mumsnet is an amazing source of support and I've been here back and forth for years. Glad it was able to support you in your time of need!

Mermaids are a support organisation, they don't prescribe drugs

There is so much bullshit peddled about Mermaids on here. Some posters would have us believe that your average Mermaids meeting has a line of people getting a shot of hormones in the arse and another one waiting to jump on a table to get backstreet surgery from some bloke with a biology GCSE and a scalpel. And all the parents are congratulating themselves for being cool and edgy and eradicating homosexuality because having a kid with gender dysphoria is all for the lolz.

Whereas, in actual fact, Mermaids support families and are incredibly good at what they do.

I am not saying that all transgender people are sex offenders

Maybe not, but you are (mis)quoting from a report that the Times had to retract and print an apology for. A report that found 40 more 'trans' prisoners than the prison service was aware of, which doesn't seem much but there are actually on 70, so adding 40 to 70 is quite a big proportion.

Of the 70 trans prisoners that the prison services is actually aware of, the majority are held in men's prisons and the 'half' figure quoted as being sex offenders is totally erroneous.

This is a shocking piece of journalism but I'm linking to it becasue it's not behind a pay wall and the figures are correct.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/41-per-cent-trans-transgender-trans-women-prisoners-sex-offenders-false-study-statistic-this-is-why-a8072431.html

That 'reports' was made up by the same people who put together the petition that keeps being linked to, are you really sure you want them to represent you?

So OP has clearly never read a trans thread on here and yet feels qualified to rant about how transphobic we all are.

Oh do jog on dear.

@ CapnHaddock

So, you make up stuff and then when you're offered proof that it's not true, you turn it down. You know, it's almost like you don't believe it yourself...

The Times didn't publish an apology. Where do you get that idea? Those figures were later found to be conservative in fact even more TW were in prison than stated. The Independent article was the incorrect one.

That 'reports' was made up by the same people who put together the petition that keeps being linked to, are you really sure you want them to represent you

I think there's a lot of misinformation out there - and social media makes it easy to keep repeating it until things seem true.

I also think there are agitators, fake twitter accounts and who knows what out there - for all kinds of things. Trans, Brexit, anything. People read something that sounds believable and retweet it, comment on it and spread it - and it could be a 'nothing burger'.

The internet has been a great invention but social media is a great resource and a great propaganda and misleading tool as well.

I also think that if someone goes on TV and talks about statistics, they had better be well informed of their sources and any corrections - or else their argument and credibility can be destroyed in front of them.

I haven't made anything up. I said your voice is unlikely. By all means, send me a link to your FB profile.

@4seasons

... some genuinely interesting posts on this issue. Can’t say I’ve seen any contributions from you before ....might just be me unable to look them up of course. Have you posted on any other issues ?

I change my user name a fair bit, I tend to be a bit free with the information I give out and then come over all shy. It's allowed here and common enough. If you have any doubts, please feel free to contact MNHQ.

Stillscreaming

Good Lord, even JC had the stats to hand.

The number of men who have a GRC is vanishingly small. Anyone can google it. I've googled it for you several times before.

I really, really don't understand why you're so angry about this.

You wonder why people aren't talking about repealing the 8th. It suggests that you're cross with women for not concentrating on other feminist issues?

At most, you would be sad, or a little irritated. But you spend post after post minimising what women are saying and trying to make them stop.

You don't link to back up your arguments, but you repeatedly ask people to link to back up the same arguments that they have already backed up.

Perhaps you think that other people can't do their own research. Lurkers, fence sitters, etc.

I don't get why you're so very angry about it. I know what I am angry.

And can talk all the day long day about it.

But what is your actual problem with it? Do you have someone close to you who is trans?

Do you understand the difference between fetishists and transsexuals? Do you know why we make a distinction?

Do you understand how the law, currently, can't make that distinction?

What is it, exactly, that you personally want for transpeople?

If you leave women and women's rights out of the equation entirely.

What is that you're advocating for?

I've followed that link and the actual prison report that it leads you to, and I think you may have misread it.

The 70 prisoners are those who are 'currently living in, or are presenting in, a gender different to their sex assigned at birth and who have had a case conference'.

But the report says this 'excludes information on the number of prisoners who have already transitioned and have a full Gender Recognition Certificate.'

So, all we know is that it's at least 70.

@MorningsEleven you clearly missed @whosrightsareright's post.

Here it is again:

"My child has genuine dysphoria and like many trans people has been treated appallingly by the trans lobby and supporters of organisations such as Mermaids. Guess where our family found support for our trans child? The so called terfs of mumsnet.Trans ally my arse."

So, supporting families as long as they toe the Mermaids line. Which is what people have said.

Oh Stillscreaming, I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't kick you in the shins for using a gendered insult.

It was very wrong of me, I offer no defence. I'm very sorry indeed.

I also think there are agitators, fake twitter accounts and who knows what out there

Absolutely!

@CapnHaddock

I read it, I disagree with it. I'm allowed to.

It's amazing how many posters still don't get it! I hate to say this and I sincerely hope this doesn't happen, but I'm wondering if they'll only ever truly understand if an "incident" occurs to themselves or a female friend/ female family member in a public toilet or changing room? Even a muttered sexual comment can be upsetting, especially if it's aimed at our dd's/ gdd's. We have only a few female only safe places, why the f can't we keep them?

We have only a few female only safe places, why the f can't we keep them?

Because the TRAs/MRAs want to put us back in our ‘place’. Women are starting to get further ahead in business, refusing to stay with abusive men, reporting sexual harassment, basically saying NO to men, and they really really don’t like that. The best way to destroy any group is to infiltrate and sabotage from within, that’s why they’re so determined to get into women’s shelters, changing rooms, Girlguiding, women’s groups and women’s spaces eg LM.

Obviously you're entitled to an opinion. But you presented it as a fact. And what you said isn't true. Mermaids do advocate transitioning. They advocate contacting Helen Webberley for off-label blockers. They also link to free binder organisations. There is no information on their page about watchful waiting. It is all about transitioning.

Oh and StillScreaming - still really happy to have a look at your FB profile :)

The number of men who have a GRC is vanishingly small. Anyone can google it. I've googled it for you several times before.

No you haven't. That's another fib. You have no proof that it's 1% becasue there is no proof that it's 1%.

I really, really don't understand why you're so angry about this.

I'm really cross that, you and I'm just talking about you' mislead women, causing them genuine fear and alarm about a subject that you admit to not supporting yourself. You've admitted before now that 'no self id' isn't your goal, you want the Equalities Act overturned. Thr Equalities Act does a lot for women but you're happy to throw it out with the bath water to see your anti trans adgenda pushed.

I think that you enable an environment that allows trans women to be dehumanised. I think that you make women frightened. I think that you constantly thrown out worthless 'facts' and that makes me roll my eyes.

Do you have someone close to you who is trans?

More than one. Good, decent people who are getting on with their lives. However, from a personal point of view, the constant infantilising of women annoys me. You tell the rest of us, all the time, that we won't be able to turn down a HCP, won't be able to say no to a bra fitter, won't be able to compete with trans women in sport or business. That we just won't cope. In addition to how infantilising this is, I worry that women will take you at you word and start to accept smear test/bra fittings/whatever from people they aren't comfortable with because they've swallowed this bullshit.