To consider not naming him on birth certificate?

[klf1307]

Hi. I'm in a pickle not knowing what to do. My daughter is due in 8 weeks and I'm having a tricky time with her father.

I need to tell our story so you understand. This is a bit long. I'll try to keep it brief as poss ...

We met in summer last year, I fell pregnant in a few weeks later, then we broke up early just after before I even knew I was pregnant (Approx 6 week relationship). I discovered I was expecting and took a couple of weeks to decide whether to even tell him - I did and he said he wants to be involved and until very recently he's been wonderful but there's always been a nag at the back of my mind.

Now the tricky bits... firstly he's eastern european and he's planning to apply for British citizenship in a couple of years when he can. I'm extremely worried about what's going to happen to him after brexit. He may have to leave the UK. He may not even be granted citizenship no matter what happens with brexit. He doesn't have a caterer or a stable job. He lives in shared accommodation. That's all fine, he makes his money and my daughter will be living with me and visit him weekly or so.

His family are very traditional. I know they want us to get married which isn't going to happen. He's not someone I want to be with because he has alarming traits such as if it's not important to him it's not important. He's also irresponsible and unable to see other people's needs, which worries me a lot as I don't think he'll take our daughter seriously.
Example... I'm 7 months pregnant and not once has he offered to help around the house - in fact it's a major clean up job after he's gone after listening to him complain about how messy the place is (I commute 2 hours a day to a demanding 40 hour a week job and I'm exhausted. Eating then sleeping is my priority when I get home).

Yesterday I tried to talk him through my birth plan. He doesn't want to be present.. which is fine as I have an amazing support system and I neither want nor need him there. But he basically told me he won't be honouring my wishes to the point he was telling me he'll do the exact opposite of what I want (ie facebooking my best friend instead of phoning her).

Finally and most worrying is that I've decided that if anything happens to me my brother and his wife are to become my daughter's guardians because they own their home, have stable good jobs, have been approved for adoption and they will never take her out the country. I've done this because my wishes are that my daughter grows up in the UK.

Although I know this hurt him (and it would hurt me too) I truly believe - with brexit, him not being British, his family wanting him to take her abroad to live - placing her with her uncle and aunty would be best and most stable for her.

He has said he'll not respect my wishes in this either even when I suggested it as a temporary solution until he's settled properly and even if (when) I write my will he would take my family to court to fight them.

I really don't want to cause a rift between my daughter and her dad, or her foreign family but I need to protect her. I need to know there's a concrete plan in place if the worst happens to me. I need to be sure she'll be safe and secure. Truly the only way I can think of to ensure my wishes as met is to register her without him, which makes me feel sick.

So if you got this far, thank you, and tell me am I being unreasonable to consider leaving him off and effectively cutting him out of her life?

KLF, you seem to have had a lot of input from people advocating fathers' rights on the thread, which may skew your judgements about what's considered reasonable.

You are not obliged to have the baby's father at the birth, to tell him when you've gone into labour (or even when you've given birth). He doesn't have to be the first person to find out, he doesn't have to choose how you share the news with your family and friends. You do not have to tell him about the registration, or invite him along. It's your choice.

@Bluntness100 is right to say that men already hold a lot of control in the business of parenting. Some men do choose to apply for PR. Some men choose not to take PR, some men duck out of pre-arranged contact arrangements, some men completely abandon their children, some men won't pay maintenance, some men cheat the system to avoid the child maintenance payment authorities, all with apparent impunity. There are plenty of women who can attest to their own children losing out because of the actions of their children's fathers. None of that will stop some people from jumping up and down and calling women bitches for daring to try to prioritise their babies and their own well-being ahead of the 'rights' of the fathers.

@Bluntness101 I’m not sure it IS always that complicated but I think the court would have to be satisfied there is some risk inherent in NOT granting the order to justify placing such restrictions on a parent and their child.

@mightymucks I'm so pleased you have a wonderful supportive husband and congratulations on your twins. I'm glad there are women out there who have that.

Please dial back the nastiness. I don't expect him to clean up after me but neither do I expect him to criticise. And I've said until I'm bored of saying it that I WILL GIVE HIM AS MUCH CONTACT AS HE WANTS AND IS APPROPRIATE AND I WANT THEM TO BE IN EACH OTHERS LIVES AND I AM ASKING NLTHING OF HIM EXCEPT HE STEPS UP AND ACYS LIKE A DAD WITH RESPECT FOR ME AS WELL

And thanks for the reminder that this is going to be extremely bloody difficult and as a single mum I'm going to struggle through every single day never giving up on daughter, with the full weight of responsibility on my shoulders for the rest of my life. And you know what I will do it with joy and gratitude that I'm blessed wwith a beautiful daughter.

I really didn't need reminding that I'm terrified I won't be able to do this. That I won't be a good mum, that I'm not up to the job, all the fears you've clearly never had to deal with because you are apparently perfect

Ffs WHY is it acceptable for women like you to try and tear other women down??

Ginger, I'm not sure to be honest, I'd assume so and then who assumes legal guardianship. The fact she wants her brother is irrelevant. The brother would have to go to court to prove the father was unfit. And as said, you can't predict their future circumstances.

Inertia is right, the op is not obliged to do anything. The issue is for certain rights, like parental the court will grant him it quickly and relatively cheaply if a dna test proves he's the father. So withholding him from the birth certificate is daft, it just means he has to spend 600 quid to fix it. It will be done by the summer. Whether you wish it or not.

Op, if I was you I'd work with this man. Put him on the birth certificate, take maintenance off him. Encourage the relationship and if he is not allowed to stay after brexit deal with the practicalities and attempt to remain amiable.

Note though, I've no idea why you wished him to tell your people. You're not in a relationship. Was that more about appearances?

@bluntness100 not about appearances, it was about involving him immediately in DDs life.

Some people come on AIBU to give the OP a good kicking, I'm afraid. Try not to let their nastiness get to you (easier said than done, I know).

A good friend of mine was in your position many years ago. She was back and forth about putting him on the BC. In the end she didn't. Turned out to be the wisest move she ever made. He turned from a man who had some doubtful traits into a really nasty piece of work. He didn't ever get his act together enough to get himself added, so she was able to walk away from the mess. He wasn't a man who she could co-parent with at all and he would have emotionally damaged her daughter.

From her experiences, I would say don't add him now. See how it works out after your daughter is born. He may turn into someone you can work well with, or he may not.

I think to be fair I'd maybe have invited him to be with me when I broke the news, or even invited them out together, I can't honestly say I'd have had him tell my friends and family for me. That feels a bit strange and 1950s. . I told my friends and family when I was pregnant I didn't ask my husband to do it for me. Sometimes he was there,other times not.

With both our DDs we each told our own families. It felt like a more natural way to do things, personally. I was fortunate enough to be well enough to do so both times, I appreciate not everybody would be.

Assuming OP means announcing baby’s arrival; not the pregnancy

Op you are aware that you don't actually get a say in this long term? As someone going through family courts...please add him.

If he has appropriate contact, he may not feel the need to pursue PR through the courts. He doesn't have a career or stable job, so he may not want to spend £600 or whatever on it.

@ginger @bluntness I think you're right. Thanks 😊

Yes I mean the arrival... at 7 months and looking like I've swallowed a planet it's hard to disguise these days 😊

Honestly I would take the wait and see approach OP. There are downsides to having him named on the BC. I can speak from experience here as I've been in a similar situation. Split from my child's father early in pregnancy, remained friends, he was very enthusiastic about becoming a dad. However his interest gradually waned and at 7 months pregnant he went off the radar and I never heard from him again. He was informed of the birth and still nothing. Needless to say he is not on the BC. He just wasn't the person I thought he was and became a stranger to me. Since you don't know him very well I would wait and see how involved he really wants to be before adding him personally.
Sorry you've had such shitty replies, you're in a very stressful place right now. Just try and concentrate on preparing for the birth, those first few weeks parenting alone are incredibly tough but it does get easier. If he does stick around and behave like a parent and all round decent human being then great, you can add him to the BC then.

I’m shocked at how nasty and spiteful people are being to the OP. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Ah ok, op, I thought you meant tell them you were pregnant,,🤣

Thanks guys. I feel better after my rant 😂

No one has said the OP is 'obliged' to do anything but what is morally right? Send him on a wild goose chase through the courts? He's not obliged to visit her at her home or take orders from her either, or agree to hand over his child to her relatives if the worst happens .

Anyway OP has said she will inform him of when the baby is going to registered so he will have the chance to be on the birth certificate.

Op - what is the problem (in the slim and hypothetical chance that you die before she becomes an adult)with her father taking her back to his home country if he has a support network there? He and his family won't be strangers if he's got a relationship with her? A lot of European kids have a much better quality of life than ours do and the extended family is very child focused. In a catastrophe like that, there would be massive upheaval for her anyway. Would you not let him take her back to meet his family either?

I never actually called the OP a bitch BTW, I said she would be if she deliberately didn't let him have the opportunity to be on it (by not telling him she was registering her) and I stand by that.

In your position I wouldn't put him on the birth certificate. If in a few years he has proved to be a good involved father then he could be added.

For now with the difficulty of different nationality it's just a logistical nightmare for travel and custody etc.

Obviously I don't give a shiny shit what the majority of mumsnet thinks.

Just trust your instincts.

If in a few years he has proved to be a good involved father then he could be added

Or in a few weeks if he choses it. Did you forget that bit?

You know I really think the child has the right to have both her parents on the BC.

he is her Father. Therefore he should be on the certificate as that's what it records, who the parents are. It's a record not a judgement.

If the father is an arse, a child is better off without them on their BC or in their lives.

DisorderedOrder and sonjadog speak from experience - I'd listen to them

In your position I wouldn't put him on the birth certificate. If in a few years he has proved to be a good involved father then he could be added.

Imagine saying that about a mother.

Leaving him off generates such bad feeling for nothing (given that he’s present m, keen to be involved, not violent, not an addict...)

Why the hell should he if the OP won't name him as the father?

You're assuming this man who apparently likes to be disagreeable just for the fun of it, would even attend the appointment with the registrar. And if he doesn't, he doesn't go on the birth certificate. It's not something she could even do without him physically there.

If OP doesn't mention the birth certificate it's probably not something that will cross his mind. It's a very overblown issue on MN, not so much in the real world.

I'd say that what is morally right would be to make the long-term considerations of the child the priority -it isn't a case of the mother of father 'winning'.

It's a case of weighing up likely risks, costs and benefits.

If father is named on the BC, the perceived risk is that he could attempt to use PR to remove the child from the UK, and as other posters have suggested you probably need professional advice about that.

It's also pretty common for fathers to be named on the BC, then totally drop all involvement or contact. This can make it very difficult for the RP to then make decisions about things like surname changes, adoption by a future step-parent etc as the father's permission is required but cannot be obtained. And this isn't even a father who promises the earth, he's promising to be contrary. Leaving his name off means that if he chooses not to take up PR and then chooses not to be involved, then the parent in the child's life can independently take decisions.

The father being named on the BC is an irreversible decision.

If the father is not named on the BC, then he has the opportunity to contest that and pursue PR, so it is reversible. There's some cost and inconvenience involved for the father- but then again, over a child's lifetime a woman is likely to incur a much greater cost in terms of lost earnings, child care costs etc, and she is also likely to incur more pain and inconvenience.

Another thing that's occurred to me @KLF1307- if you're not in a relationship, why does he even need to come to your house in the first place? If he's going to whinge that you didn't wash up before your 10 hour work shift and 2 hour commute, wouldn't it be easier to arrange to meet him at a cafe to go through any arrangements you need to sort?