about this argument with my wife?

[GregVegas]

hi there

i need some advice

my wife and i are moving abroad on sunday and are in the process of packing and getting the house sorted ready to be rented out

my wife told me i was in charge of taking rubbish / unwanted items to the dump and she would pack everything else. she was making piles of 'wanted' and 'unwanted' and she accidentally put a personal possession of hers in the unwanted pile. i then took it to the dump.

this morning she asked me where the item was and i said i was pretty sure it had been put in an 'unwanted' bag and that i'd chucked it. she got really angry and started ranting about how im so unthoughtful and how i should have known she wanted to keep this thing and how it was all my fault.

i was tired and not in the mood for screaming and shouting so i went to walk out of the room, she grabbed my arm to pull me back so i turned around and pushed her, she fell over.

she is still not talking to me and claims i hit her.

i just wanted her to let me go so i could calm down and she wouldnt let me. she is still not speaking to me.

She grabbed your arm, that is an assault. You have an inherent right to self defence which you exercised by pushing her away from you.

Amazing how many people are willing to say how incompatible you pair are, or that one or the other is a cunt/ abusive from this tiny snapshot of a stressful moment.

You've read the other thread haven't you OP?

• How long have you been together?

we have been together 7 years, married for just over 2

• Have arguments ever turned physical before between you or is this the first time?

i have never been physical with my wife. she has never physically touched me in a violent manner however when we have arguments she will create barriers, stand in front of me, block exits and not let me leave.

• If there has been any grabbing or pushing or slamming around before, who was/is the instigator...you? Your wife? Both?

as above, she has never hit me but i do feel worn down by her sometimes. a few months ago during an argument i said i was going out to my parents to calm down and give her space, whilst i was looking for my house and car keys she found them without me realising, locked the front and back door and refused to give the keys back.

• Is there a lot of screaming and shouting generally in your relationship...again, either by you or her?

my wife is sensitive and explained to me that to her, everything has to be right or she feels she has lost control and she can't stay calm and control her reactions. we have had several arguments where i have done something she didnt like or put something away in the wrong place and she has panicked and then lashed out by screaming and shouting. as soon as she mentioned the personal item of hers and i realised it had been thrown away, i KNEW what was going to happen, she cant handle things like that going wrong. in the early days i didnt understand why she would get so upset so i would shout back however now i can sense when she is going to start raging and i dont bother raising my voice as that makes her worse. so i havent shouted or screamed at her since the first six months of our relationship.

• Other than during this period of extreme stress, is your relationship usually happy and loving?

because of the above my wife tends to get hysterical during arguments however when shes happy she is great, loving, funny, caring i couldnt ask for a better wife.

• How do you and your wife compare physically in terms of size, strength, health?

we are both healthy, i am taller and weigh more than my wife.

• Was she hurt when she fell? Any injuries or bruises?

no injuries or bruises.

• What did you do immediately after she fell? Rush to help her feeling upset that she’d fallen? Apologise immediately and say (with honesty) that you didn’t mean to shove her so hard? Or storm out in anger to cool off, leaving her on the ground, possibly hurt? Or carry on shouting at her perhaps?

when she fell she started crying saying i'd assaulted her and that i was a bastard and that her wrist could be broken, i offered my hand out to help her up and she pushed my hand away, i apologised for shoving and said i just needed space, she swore at me a bit more and then got up and left the room. since the argument she has been moving boxes into the garage ready for shipping and doesnt seem to be struggling with her wrist.

• Do you have any kids?

no she is adamant we cant have kids as she doesnt feel maternal.

Oh my god. reading the OPs latest post, it sounds like his wife is a nightmare.

OP. it sounds like you are walking on egg shells constantly. It sounds like youre a trained puppy to stop her turning into a screaming banshee. that is abusive behaviour on her part. She locked the doors and witheld your keys so she could shout and scream some more? please tell me why you felt the need to continue with the relationship after this?

Do not allow her to use the sensitive line if you continue to be with her, she needs to fucking own it. If she finds things triggering that arent normal to another person then she needs to work through them herself, not expect you to adapt your behaviour.

and she needs telling that if she lays another hand on you during an argument or keeps you in the house against your will ever again you will be the one calling the police.

In my opinion she is a manipulative, abusive and dangerous person from what you have said. I would not be moving abroad with her. if you do go, which i imagine you will, you need to get tough with her. She needs to know she cant be grabbing you when your instinct is to remove yourself from the situation. There needs to be a clear boundary where you both know you cant push/shove/grab eachother but i also wouldnt be surprised if she didnt half throw herself on the floor for the attention factor- that feels awful to type but she reads like she loves a bit of screaming about how hurt and upset you make her....because its all your fault.

I really have only one question: what makes this relationship worthwhile to you?

I think if she doesn't agree to some kind of counselling then maybe it's time to call it a day. I can imagine you're on edge OP, that's no way to have to live.

Go see a solicitor, and get the ball rolling on a divorce. This woman doesn't love you. I bet you a pound to a penny your self esteem is shot to shit and you are only with her because you have been trained to think you couldn't get anyone else.

Truth be told you could do infinitely better than this, if the above seems at all scary and too much at this stage your first port of call is go find a therapist for yourself, and start to unpack the chronic emotional abuse you've been suffering from.

Honestly couldn't be arsed with that drama.

See this as an opportunity to make a clean break by yourself.

Op you are trying to manage HER emotions for her by not sticking up for yourself verbally but all you are doing is validating her behaviour.

Her "explaining" why she loses it shows that she has no intention of managing her own behaviour.

She has locked you in, thats abuse/restraint.

I think this will only get worse, it has already started to escalate. She has got away with locking you in and now shes pushing the boundaries further.

I think you need to get away ASAP

You probably wont really see quite how much youre walking on eggshells with her until you get some distance and look back

Pushing someone off you because they've grabbed you and won't let you go and are screaming at you is not the same as hitting someone regardless of whether or not they fell from being pushed away.

It sounds like she's exaggerating the situation just because she's still pissed off about the item getting chucked which was her fault as well.

OP I hope you realise soon that you are being mentally (and now pysically)
abused.
I really hope that you get away from this person before you become totally subservient and trodden down and then find that you cant leave.
Be aware! Make notes of what happens and when, so that you can be aware of this abuse escalating and get away while you still can.
What do your friends and family think of her?

I bet he's not allowed many family and friends, unless they are vetted and approved by she who must be obeyed!

Is the move taking you away from your friends and family - people that can support you?

I think you need to make you don't get isolated.

Whose idea was it to move over seas?
If it came from your wife, I would guess that she is trying to isolate you from the support you have of family and friends.
She stopped you going to your parents for some respite by hiding your car keys and locking you in the house, moving abroad could be an extreme locking you in, actually locking you in another country.
Shes manipulative and a liar, you have to help to make her World perfect because she is "sensitive" and if you don't she will rant, scream and shout at you, because it's all your fault
She is abusive to you and is slowly disempowering you to the point where you will be a shadow of who you were.
I would even hazard that she won't have children because they would take your attention and adoration away from her and narcissists will not tolerate any competition in their self made, tyrannical World.
You don't want to hear any of this though, do you? You came on MN to ask how you could make things right with her (again) and get her to speak to you again.
You should come back here when your life becomes unbearable and you need help you get away, MN will be your lifeline.

She sounds like she has anger issues.

That’s not nice to live with. Do you really want to emigrate with her??

Can't you both just accept you both behaved badly under stress and hug each other and apologise. My partner and I argue when stressed, which isn't often thankfully, but it shouldn't be a deal breaker just accept you are both a bit rubbish sometimes. Pushing her over though means you need to grovel and tell her it won't happen again.

@Jon66 That was my initial suggestion but with OP's subsequent update seems there's a lot more going on.

I think i would accidentally set fire to her passport the morning you are due to leave and go without her

OP you really need to see this as a watershed moment. By threatening you with the police she is escalating. You need to end this relationship now before you lose yourself completely.

You acted in self defence. She has serious issues and needs to take a good look at herself. She shouted and put hands on you, you stopped her doing this. She was wrong.

Moving is stressful and she was probably furious at herself but blamed you. She was unreasonable but for other people to call her a c* and to advise a divorce is unreasonable in my opinion. She's your wife, you know her best and love her. Everyone is different and I can't say what your wife would best react to but I have had panic attacks in the past which involve shouting. I have suggested to my husband that he try giving me the biggest hug and reminding me he's there for me and he does that and says 'sorry for xxxxx and don't forget i love You' and that seems to calm me. She was sad about her personal item, I don't know what it was but is there any way you could replace it as a romantic gesture? That's not admitting fault but would be hugely kind. If she's hurt by a perceived push she may just want some affection and a show of love. At least that's how I would be.
Everyone seems keen on scoring points and teaching her a lesson. The heart doesn't work that way. If you love her and want to be there for her, recognise that she was hury by the gesture of this mini push. When shes absolutely calm again apologise and say something like ' - i know i hurt you but i just needed some space to let off steam without hurting you. Please dont worry if i need to do that in future, its because i love you and dont want to hurt you or take it out on you and i will always come back to you.' Good luck :-)

That's not to say I'm always in the wrong when it happens to me, its about 50-50 so please don't think I'm a crazy person! Everybody argues. Xx

*hurt by the gesture, not hury

Isn't it clear from the OP's update that this is a pattern of behaviour? If nothing else having to constantly walk on eggshells around someone is emotionally draining and the stress can lead to health problems later in life.

I'm not sure I'd go so far to diagnose narcissism as it's less common in women, and it's bloody difficult to diagnose from a distance. It does seem to be the personality disorder that's in vogue to diagnose everyone with, but from what the OP has revealed is that there is no self awareness, and any negativity is always external and he has to modify as it's never her fault.

I would be willing to suggest a personality disorder of some kind, and the OP is exhibiting neurotic behaviour in taking too much responsibility for her emotional state. If you want to get technical this actually harms her as she'll never own her shit whilst she has a live in walking reason for own negative state of mind.

These pairings never last, if she is a full blown narcissist she's beyond redemption, if she suffers from just a mild personality disorder they are both damaging each other, and they will be until she takes some responsibility, or he does by taking drastic action by telling he's genuinely thinking of leaving her.

Bald facts here is that things are not looking rosy for this particular couple, and perhaps paradoxically if they are going to make it work facing this reality is the only way.

To the OP does your wife suffer from or has suffered any kind of eating disorder in the past?

Parispapillion- wow. I'm actually aghast at your post. Your partner panders to you. Don't reccommend this man should pander to his abusive wife.

The last thing she deserves is a romantic gesture. She needs to own it.

I have very little patience for the notion that people who scream and shout and grab their partners whilst expecting them to change perfectly reasonable behaviours should be treated like sensitive little princesses deserving of romantic gestures and declarations of love.

It is abusive to him and no. None of these explanations of I love you forever. "Sorry, but if you can't act in a reasonable manner and you feel the need to shout, scream and rant at me, I am removing myself from this situation. I will return when you act in a more reasonable way." Is what she needs to hear.