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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

about this argument with my wife?

156 replies

GregVegas · 23/03/2018 16:40

hi there

i need some advice

my wife and i are moving abroad on sunday and are in the process of packing and getting the house sorted ready to be rented out

my wife told me i was in charge of taking rubbish / unwanted items to the dump and she would pack everything else. she was making piles of 'wanted' and 'unwanted' and she accidentally put a personal possession of hers in the unwanted pile. i then took it to the dump.

this morning she asked me where the item was and i said i was pretty sure it had been put in an 'unwanted' bag and that i'd chucked it. she got really angry and started ranting about how im so unthoughtful and how i should have known she wanted to keep this thing and how it was all my fault.

i was tired and not in the mood for screaming and shouting so i went to walk out of the room, she grabbed my arm to pull me back so i turned around and pushed her, she fell over.

she is still not talking to me and claims i hit her.

i just wanted her to let me go so i could calm down and she wouldnt let me. she is still not speaking to me.

OP posts:
Moussemoose · 23/03/2018 19:39

The way we react In anger and or panic is different than the normal way we react.

I have 'a temper' I would have shoved her away. I'm 5"2 and a woman so that's ok. If I was 6"2 and a bloke I would also have to change my personality and gently removed her arm. I honestly don't think I am capable of that. I honestly don't think in that situation feeling stressed and wanting to get away I could have calmly removed her arm and walked away.

So honestly that makes me a potential abuser.

panetonnebraxton · 23/03/2018 19:39

It depends on the context. None of us were there or know this couple's background.

If she has a history of being violent, shoving her may have been more reasonable. If she's never violent and wasn't in some bizarre hulk-rage, then a shove is definitely unnecessary.

Would you give this advice if a woman was being treated in this way?

Again it depends on context, but obviously it's less likely a woman would be able to pull her arm out of a man's grip. It's also less likely that a woman shoving a man would have much of an effect, thought.

cuppateamum · 23/03/2018 19:40

Moving house is the most stressful thing I have ever done. It literally nearly send me over the edge. Moving abroad I haven't done but I can imagine that's amplified. Under that kind of stress I know I did not act myself, was not always rational, was being an impossible nightmare. So was my OH. On moving day I really questioned WTF we were doing moving together, at that time I thought he was vile, unsupportive, selfish, inconsiderate etc... he was acting that way, not acting like a man I wanted to be with. Neither was I acting like a women he wanted to be with.

Forward a couple of years and thank goodness we gritted our teeth and got on with it rather than make big decisions/reactions at that time or think too much about what/how we felt at the time of the move. The stress went, we went back to normal. And happy. Both accepted we'd been out of order. Our relationship isn't perfect but it's far from the catastrophic mess we both felt it was at that time of moving.

I wish you luck and hope this turns out well for you both.

anneoneill · 23/03/2018 19:42

OP, you're in the in the wrong place. If she stabbed you, you'd be a cunt on here for the creating a mess with your blood. You were not unreasonable, but YABU to think you'll get a fair hearing here.

SpringHen · 23/03/2018 19:43

Beyond reason? Dangerous? Is that not overstating things a bit?
In what way? She was already in a rage for an illogical reason and it had already escalated to her being physical.

The only thing to do in a situation like that is GET AWAY.

latchkeyadult · 23/03/2018 19:44

Moussemoose it's not about changing your personality. It's just about being aware of the context and the situation, which is an inherent feeling in most [decent] people.

E.g. If a man 12 inches taller than me angrily grabbed my arm and I was scared, I might shove him away. But if an angry old lady 12 inches shorter than me grabbed my arm, I obviously wouldn't feel as scared in the first place and so I wouldn't shove her.

Likewise, if my OH who is 6 inches shorter than me and much weaker than me grabbed my arm during an argument out of frustration at me walking away, I wouldn't shove her to the floor. She's never been violent or scared me in any way and I'm obviously stronger than her, so shoving her would be over the top and violent.

latchkeyadult · 23/03/2018 19:47

Maybe it's because most people on here are women and don't have much/any sense of what it's like to be on the top side of a power/strength imbalance in a relationship, but in the majority of cases there is no fear for a man in a relationship with a woman. If a woman grabbed me or attacked me without a weapon, I would be able to control my reaction to a simple restraint if necessary because of that. Imagine if a child was grabbing your arm. You wouldn't feel any need (assuming you're not a psycho) to shove them. It's like that for a man vs. a woman most of the time. So yes OP, you were very wrong.

DairyisClosed · 23/03/2018 19:48

Is she normally like this? Do you have children (if the answer to both is no them she will be normally like this if you have them). She sounds a bit unhinged and not great with dealing with stress. Not to mention she clearly has issues with taking responsibility for her actions. Obviously you shouldn't have pushed her. You know that and you seem to accept that you were in the wrong doing that. My advice to you would be to get out if you can. This is not the kind she of person you want to raise kids with.

latchkeyadult · 23/03/2018 19:48

Also in response to SpringHen I do think "she got really angry and started ranting" to "She was already in a rage and dangerous" is a big leap.

DairyisClosed · 23/03/2018 19:53

For those of you who are saying he was being OTT or violrnf-have you ever been grabbed around the wrist so tightly that you couldn't get free. I was. The person who did it was weaker than me in general (shorter older woman) but I still couldn't get loose. It was horrible. At first I just twisted but then I started to get panicky. U was yanking and taking but she wouldn't let go. If she hadn't let go when she did I may have pushed her because I was starting to feel properly out of my mind scared.

badg3r · 23/03/2018 19:57

latchkeyadult I'd never thought of power balance like that before but now you say it like that it makes good sense.
OP, I think you were both in the wrong. You shouldn't have pushed her over.

MsHarry · 23/03/2018 19:59

Of course all of this is pure conjecture as none of us were there, none of us know the couple and we have one side of the argument.

MsHarry · 23/03/2018 20:00

I would be a bit Hmm id my DH came on MN after hurting me when we are supposed to be packing up and moving .Bit fishy?

Moussemoose · 23/03/2018 20:01

There may be no physical fear but emotional frustration feels like fear.

That claustrophobic sensation that you have to get away, the noise in your head, too many thoughts and emotions crashing in, you feel your temper rising and you know you have to get away. If anyone stepped in front of me when I get those feelings I might push or shove or hit.

I'm not proud of that, I wish I had more control but that fight or flight response is what I feel. I would push, I know I would.

That is who I am for good or ill.

FlouncyDoves · 23/03/2018 20:01

I’d leave it. Don’t go grovelling.

latchkeyadult · 23/03/2018 20:05

I'm not proud of that, I wish I had more control but that fight or flight response is what I feel. I would push, I know I would

But whether it's physical fear or emotional frustration that is driving you, your reaction would still differ depending on your relationship to the other person (I hope).

I.e. Is that how you would feel and react if it was a 10 year old boy grabbing your arm and screaming during a tantrum? If the answer is yes you would shove them over, then you should probably seek therapy (seriously, not trying to goad you there). If the answer is no of course not, then you have some idea of how most men would feel about their female partner grabbing their arm.

Moussemoose · 23/03/2018 20:12

Don't you get that feeling that there are too many emotions in your head?

I never had a screaming row with my dc, I left the room before that happened. Walking away is my defence mechanism, being denied that defence mechanism would panic me. I don't know how I would behave.

It is really good for you that you know how you would behave, well done you. I can't say the same. Shouting and screaming at me, I'm already tense, the feeling of injustice, the urge to get away and then being physically restrained would result in me reacting in a less than positive way.

Worst case I would lose my temper, best case I would push and leave. You obviously have more control over yourself in emotionally stressful situations.

Ihatemyclients · 23/03/2018 20:13

She was being unreasonable about the personal item, but you were unreasonable to shove her. Both need to apologise.

latchkeyadult · 23/03/2018 20:17

Yeah, I mean, if you think you could potentially physically attack a child in that situation, then you definitely have some issues with self control.

Like I said, I'm not trying to be rude to you by saying that, I'm just saying we can't vindicate OP's behaviour based on yours, since yours would also be unacceptable.

Huskylover1 · 23/03/2018 20:21

My husband is 6 ft 3, and built like a brick shit house. I am 5 ft 2. If he pushed me, it would have to be one hell of a push, to actually make me fall to the ground. A reasonable push would make me stumble backwards, yes.....sounds like the Op gave his wife a proper fucking shove. No wonder she's pissed off. Op has fucked off anyway.....

SubtitlesOn · 23/03/2018 20:44

.

Moussemoose · 23/03/2018 20:59

I would remove myself from the situation. The OP was trying to do that.
Restraining someone is an act of aggression no matter how big or small you are.

Whizbang · 23/03/2018 22:26

OP - there are some crucial questions upthread that you need to answer before any of us can really understand or advise you...please come back and respond. In particular:

  • How long have you been together?
  • Have arguments ever turned physical before between you or is this the first time?
  • If there has been any grabbing or pushing or slamming around before, who was/is the instigator...you? Your wife? Both?
  • Is there a lot of screaming and shouting generally in your relationship...again, either by you or her?
  • Other than during this period of extreme stress, is your relationship usually happy and loving? I.e is this hysterical, stressful fight unusual for you as a couple?
  • How do you and your wife compare physically in terms of size, strength, health?
  • Was she hurt when she fell? Any injuries or bruises?
  • What did you do immediately after she fell? Rush to help her feeling upset that she’d fallen? Apologise immediately and say (with honesty) that you didn’t mean to shove her so hard? Or storm out in anger to cool off, leaving her on the ground, possibly hurt? Or carry on shouting at her perhaps?
  • Do you have any kids?

In my opinion you were wrong to shove her so hard. However until we know the above, I don’t think we can draw any conclusions.

On the one hand, (not trying to be offensive here so please don’t delete!), you could be a wife beating bastard if you’ve ever struck or otherwise hurt her before. Or you could be an abusive twat escalating from verbal to physical violence. If that is the case then she should call the police and then leave you, and I’m sorry to have wasted my breath on you.

At the other end of the scale, this could be an out of character argument brought on by a terribly stressful situation, that has escalated horribly as you both got really angry, that has had a very unfortunate result. If this or similar has never happened before, nor ever will again, and you love and respect one another, that’s a different story. In that case I hope you can resolve this situation.

If the latter, you do still need to address that anger impulse you felt when you shoved her. Even if you felt you couldn’t get away when you needed to cool off, even if she was in your face shouting and grabbing at your arm. Unless you were genuinely acting in self defence it is unacceptable and a clear red flag. You admit in your update that you ‘snapped’’ and shoved too hard. That sounds like anger. There will no doubt be future stresses and rows in your relationship. what are you going to next time when she’s angry/upset and you can’t get away to cool off - lash out in anger again? It’s a very slippery slope and if I was her I’d be v upset, shocked and worried that this was the start of abuse and what action I should take. You might not have hit her, but you still angrily shoved her away to the ground and she could have been hurt. Get help to address that anger impulse now otherwise this could happen again. You cannot always walk off or run away.

I should add that all of the above could also very well apply to your wife as well as you. From your description it sounds like she also was very angry, and grabbing at you while shouting in your face is also not acceptable. Men get abused too and perhaps this is a pattern of verbal abuse and grabbing, poking that you have reacted to? Who knows, until you have answered the questions.

Bloody hell...I am clearly over-invested in this thread! That and I’ve had a couple of Wine and I’ve no one to talk to on the way home Grin. Well done to anyone who’s made it this far!

samwormy91 · 23/03/2018 23:01

So if there moving and there is a get rid pile and a keep pile it's quite possible she fell over something rather then him shoving her.... Plus if she's screaming at him and they are arguing then it was clearly a heat of the moment situation and he just wanted to get away .... people comparing this to a 10 year old child is ridiculous because if a ten year old child is in your face screaming at you and grabbing you something isn't right anyway for example the mom doing that and the husband calmly letting her maybe? The part that I find mostly iffy is that's she sat there blatantly saying she can go to the police... manipulating you that she can lie and they would believe her.... why would she do that.... and how personal was this item? Need to reconsider this move tbh

IamSerena · 24/03/2018 04:48

I'm fairly sure this is the opposite point of view of a post from the wife's perspective where she was given the benefit of the doubt because she's a woman. Someone is clearly trying to prove a (valid imo) point.