To consider going against my own strongly held beliefs about getting married before having children

[KirstenRaymonde]

Have name changed as I’m usually woefully sloppy with giving out identifying details about myself, and am a known MNetter in real life, so thought I’d make an attempt at privacy for this. Sorry in advance but this will likely be long.

I have always felt very strongly that I wanted to be married before having children. No judgment on whatever anyone else chooses to do, and I know often the decision is taken out of people’s hands anyway, but I’ve alays felt I wanted to be absolutely committed to someone before deciding to bring a child into the world with them on purpose. Plus the legal protection of marriage plays into my reasoning in no small part. I’ve been 100% sure I will get married before trying for kids for as long as I could possibly have been thinking about such things, it’s never been in doubt for me (and actually I’d have considered it a deal breaker if a partner hadn’t agreed to it)

I am 30, DP is 28 and we’ve been together for 6 years. We are very settled and happy together, he’s a fantastic partner and my best friend. We’ve decided we want to get married, and have been talking about when to have children. We’ve been talking about it for a couple of years actually, but turning 30 ramped it up for me.

We were looking at getting married next year, but even trying to do a wedding on the cheap (big stately home do’s are not us) it was still getting expensive very quickly. We are lucky to have lots of friends and family we really love and would want to share the day with. I tried to cut our potential invite list down to the absolute bare minimum and still couldn’t get it below 70, not including kids. This is a lovely problem to have but it does add up the costs even just in food and drink. I considered briefly eloping or doing it just with immediate family and best friends (which would still take us beyond....30 or 40 people at least!) but I just couldn’t do it, I want the people I love there. So we’ve decided to marry instead in 2020, on a date that’s significant to us and I think worth waiting for, and enables us to save for the wedding we want. I am happy with this decision after a couple of months of worrying how to make it all work, and the pressure of figuring out how to sort it in that time has just gone. But of course this pushes back TTC by at least a year if not more, date is about 2.5 years from now.

So now I’m thinking, why don’t we just try for a baby now? There seem lots of very good reasons to just go for it, and try to have a baby before the wedding. But I’m really going back and forth on myself. DP knows how I’ve always felt about being married first and had agreed with what made me happy, but he doesn’t feel so strongly about it so wants me to be sure of my feelings.

My good reasons include:

• I know 30 isn’t old, and I’ve no reason to doubt my fertility, but I’m conscious that having your kids younger is generally better for health reasons. I also recently had some cervical cell changes discovered at a smear (it’s fine for now but they’re being monitored as early stage at risk) and the thought that I could put off and put off trying, and then have the choice taken away from me by something like cancer feels me with such deep dread.
• DP has a medical condition which could impact sperm motility. It’s not for sure, and potentially a low risk, but should it be the case it could take us longer to conceive and I think we should consider that. At the moment time and age are on our side.
• Our relationship is wonderful and solid. I know I have a true partner in DP, he won’t be ‘babysitting’ his own kids, and he doesn’t ‘help me with the house’, he does his perfect fair share of our life together (if not more at times). He is fair and patient. I can completely rely on him. Marriage would solidify that legally but I don’t have any fears about him leaving or his skills as a parent. He is already a wonderful uncle, in fact he’s probably more child friendly than I am, and ‘Dad’ to our cats. I know he will care for and support me and any children amazingly, whether we’re already married or not.
• My DDad died very suddenly, young, recently. Both my grandfathers also died young, I didn’t know them. It has brought mine and my other loved ones mortality into focus (unsurprisingly) and I want to make sure my kids know my DM and DPs wonderful parents, who are all already brilliant and involved GPs, and have them around in all our lives for as long as possible. DM is on heart medication and hopefully will live another 30 years, but her DM died when she was 33, and I know she’s always felt her absence in hers and is children’s lives. The longer we wait the less potential time I see.
• I am close to my siblings and cousins and want my DCs to have that opportunity too. Our sibling’s children are already appearing and I’d love them all to be close in age.
• We live amongst a great support network of friends and family we can rely on, emotionally and physically. We are very lucky in this regard.
• Financially we are just about fine. Could always be better of course, but DP is on an upwards trajectory and even as we are now living costs including childcare would be fine. We don’t own our house, but we live near London and prices are nuts. If we waited to own we could be waiting a long time!

So yes, many ticks in the yes box! But what about some cons?

• We have some debt. Not crazy but needs dealing with, any decision to TTC would have to be accompanied by heavy duty knuckling down to saving and debt repayment, but I think knowing why we were working hard to do that quickly would make it easier.

But number one negative - I fear I will always judge myself for not waiting, for going against my own beliefs that I’ve always held so highly. I’m not worried about anyone else’s thoughts, I don’t think it would bother anyone else at all which way round we did it, but it might well bother me, and I’d hate to have that niggling regret in the back of my mind - I guess that I didn’t meet my own standards for want of a better term.

But I’m conscious that anything can always happen, we can’t plan life to a tee and sometimes maybe we just need to go for it? I am a worrier and do always feel like I need to be in control of ‘the plan’ but recent events have shown me sometimes you really can’t plan.

Fully prepared to be told I’m being utterly ridiculous, but after rolling this around in my head gettings nowhere for a few weeks I thought I’d present it to the wonders of MN and see what you all thought.

So, if you made it this far, thanks! Would be grateful for any advice.

You say in your OP that you're a worrier, and TBH, most of your points sound like worries rather than reasons IYSWIM. You admit that the chances of your fertility being affected by waiting are low, and realistically the likelihood of 2.5 years making a difference are tiny. Ditto, realistically, so are the chances of your loved ones dying in the next two years. The other 'pros' aren't reasons to have children now, they're just reasons why it wouldn't be a bad idea. In fact, the only reason I can see from your OP why it would be better to have kids now rather than later is the fact that you want them to be close in age to their cousins - but while that's nice, I don't think it's that important - and you say yourself that your siblings are only 'beginning' to have children, so it may not even end up being an issue. And even if you got pregnant tomorrow, a few years age difference means a lot to small children.
On the other hand, while you're obviously a worrier, it's clear from your OP that what you aren't worried about is your partner leaving you and screwing you over financially. You worry about so much, but you are clear that he's a good person, that you're committed to each other, that he'll be a brilliant dad and that he'll support your children. Yes, you probably won't get half the assets if you split up tomorrow, but you don't own a house, you have no intention of buying one in the next two years and your partner really doesn't sound like he's about to leave you holding the baby without paying maintenance.. Your con isn't "what if we split up and I'm financially fucked?" But "What if I feel bad about it?" And honestly? I think having a child and having a lovely wedding are likely to be much bigger things in your life than "Oh, but I wanted to do it the other way around".

All of which is a long-winded way of saying I think you're overthinking this. I don't think you have any pressing reasons to wait and I don't think you have any pressing reasons not to. I think you want a child now because you want a child now and that's what it boils down to. I think whichever you decide will probably be fine.
You're in a very fortunate position to have a lovely partner, lovely family and financial stability. Weddings are nice and so are babies. It sounds like you have an exciting couple of years ahead - good luck with it, whichever you decide!

I really do just want church service, picnic/bbq/piss up chill. But that really seems to be adding up when I’ve done the numbers in my head.

Church and then back to PILs for a bring and share meal/picnic. Very plain simple dress. No fripperies.

Keep the cost to £3K

Please believe me when I say that the wedding is going to feel so Unimportant when you have a child.

Actually, I've been thinking about this, and there are four potential disasters if you have a child pre-marriage.

1. You get pregnant then split up in the next 2.5 years.

You don't have a house. You don't have savings. You haven't sacrificed years of earning potential to raise children. Maintenance doesn't depend on being married. Honestly? If this happens you'll be financially better off, because you won't have to go through an expensive divorce.

1. You have a child and in the fug of raising it you're too skint/exhausted to get round to planning a wedding and the subsequent break-up ends up happening when it matters more.

2.5 years isn't that long away. If you do get pregnant tomorrow, use the nine months to start booking venues/caterers, sending out save-the-dates, researching marquees. Get as much done now and limit the later preparation to wedding shoes and ribbons.

1. You have a child and one of you dies before the wedding.

I'd say this is actually a bigger (if unlikelier) issue. But it's one you can mitigate against. Make sure you both write your wills. Make sure you, your DP and the child are named beneficiaries in your pension schemes. Get life insurance. Talk to a lawyer. Be sensible and boring about it.

1. You end up regretting it later.

Meh. You can live with this.

If you have a child first, a wedding will always be too expensive. Children eat away at money before it’s barely earned, you’ll really struggle to save after children.
I’d have a small wedding, within budget or at virtually no cost, have your babies then see if you can afford to save up for the big day in the future.

So... I have a DH who was and is like your intended. It STILL took us a while to figure all this shit out after our first was born, just because I was on mat leave and he was still working. Little things like him having a wee by himself as soon as he came in the door nearly ended our marriage, because I had pretty bad PND. There was one point where I walked out of the house, and had we not been married would not have come back, but the sheer overwhelm of sorting out a divorce held me there. That might seem like a shit reason to be married, but our marriage is good these days, and we have two kids that we share the work of. Everyone needs to manage things in their own way, buthaving RTFTI thought I would share my perspective, which is a bit unusual.

Will your parents not contribute to the wedding? I would get married in a way you can afford now and get on with TTC. I appreciate you want a dream wedding but isn't it more important to be married (as opposed to having a grand wedding)

Op, get married in a registry office. If your dp’s career is on an upward trajectory, you want to make sure your children are secure. I did not marry the father of DS. ( we were together for 9 years). I suppported us and then when we split, he tried to get maintenance from me (instead of a job) but couldn’t. Luckily I earn enough to support DS. You never know how life turns out. Make sure your family has a secure base. If you are not far from London & have good friends. Use any wedding money to put a deposit on a house. You can do a joint wedding / christening in a couple of years...

It’s adding up to £6-7k because of the loos and marquee. We thought about that but found it was so much cheaper to use a real building! Church hall / village hall / community centre can generally be hired a great deal cheaper and already have loos. A barbecue / spit roast lamb company will bring own gazebo for rain shelter.

Re churches being booked up we got married on a summer Saturday in a beautiful church in six months, simply by getting married on the same day as another wedding. Otherwise, try a weekday.

What will you do if you don't conceive quickly? You could end up with a due date that clashes with your planned date in 2020.

We get married in May OP. The venue does civil ceremonies so no cars needed. We are paying 2.5k for a sit down meal for 50, buffet for 80 in the evening, all the bits and bobs like centre pieces, chair covers, cake stand, a DJ, honeymoon suite. The registrar fees were about £400. My dress was £150 from a charity shops. Dps suit will be from next probably. Dd and ds will be bridesmaid and page boy. The entire thing will cost about 3k. My auntie is doing the cake and flowers. No photographer.

There are a million things you can pay for at a wedding. For me food, drink and the people I care about being there are the most important things.

And with regards to the numbers we are not inviting aunts and uncles and cousins we don't see regularly to the day do. Just the evening do. You dont have to have everyone there.

A wedding can cost as much or as little as you like. It is 1 day. Why spend thousands you don't have on 1 day?

Personally I’d get married now in a registry office.

Then I’d have a big party “blessing” when I could afford it.

I agree, if you can't afford a wedding now, you're not going to be able to afford it in three years if you have a child.

So really your post is, should we have a child with no firm plans to marry.

Your call, but you don't need seventy people there. If you want to marry do so. If you don't, and it looks like one of you is looking for reasons not to, then don't. It seems you do understand the implications.

Register office then to the pub, then try for a baby 🤷🏻‍♀️ cheap as chips!

DH and I had been together 14 years when we had DS, married for 7 of them. We had an equal relationship, no real money worries, our own house with a manageable mortgage, DH was (and is) a great "dad" to our cat and dog.

Honestly some days if we hadn't been bound by our marriage vows and mortgage I would have pulled the pin. That first year was very, very hard. I'm not saying you should get married to bind you together but certainly from a legal point of view I think it's a good idea (I'm a lawyer song would say that) and from a personal point of view I think making that commitment is a good idea before you build a family together. (I'm not religious.)

We are still together and expecting #2 in 3 months - I'm hopeful this time round will be better and DH doesn't behave like such a lazy entitled twat

Go to Gretna and get it done. I am of your school of thought. Marriage then kids.

Incidentally we eloped to the US with our parents and my brother in tow. It was really fun! Baby no 1 came 9 months later! I was 29.

'what I never understand is people talk about something being a principle for them. then discuss why they should abandon it!

if something really is a principle then its not something you just abandon when it becomes expedient to do so. and it is hard to stick to - principles are that's the nature of them.

so either the desire to be married before you have a child is a principle or it isn't. if it is then stick to it and find another way before ttc. if it isn't then admit that it isn't and just do what you are talking yourself into throughout this thread.'

This ^^. With bells on! Loads of threads on here, 'I'm traditional/old school/old fashioned, but D'P' and I had 2 kids and now he doesn't want to get married/can't afford to get married.' It costs very little to get legally married, rings aren't even a legal requirement. I wanted to be married before having children, therefore did not TTC before we were married (used 2 forms of contraception, too, every time).

We got married when our son was 2. We had a house together already - and now we have another child. Our wedding cost £7k for 80 day guests and 160 eve guests in a gorgeous venue (not stately home as we hated those too). I looked at the council website to see the list of all places licenced to hold marriage ceremonies for ideas. Honestly it doesnt matter if you are married or not when you have kids- for me it was a happy accident and i was 35 so as PP have said - i always just thought ‘well i can get married any time/age’. You should look around further to see if you can marry within your budget sooner but you are still young so i wouldnt worry!

That list of supposedly average costs of baby stuff upthread is nowhere close. Children are expensive, but not because you can't get a decent pram for less than £600 or because you need to spend £800 on nursery furniture.

Our wedding was pretty cheap but where we did spend some cash was the honeymoon. A last amazing, child free holiday. It'll be a long time before we do that again! Don't ruin it by having a sprog to drag along!

YY that list is nonsense

We had a £6k wedding in a barn. Money went on food and drink mostly and a ceilidh band. Table stuff was from ikea and my dress £100 from John Lewis. It was by no means “fancy” it was biggish (100 people) but very rustic. I don’t regret a penny

But, the kind of wedding you’re talking about won’t be nearly as much fun with a baby or even toddler. No way could I have kicked back and relaxed enough or had the energy to enjoy our wedding until about now (ds is 4). It’s hard enough to get round everyone at a wedding and speak to all the guests etc without having 90% of your attention on your baby (which is just what having a baby is like). And I was too tired to stay up past 10pm till ds was about three.

Get married as soon as you have the dosh (6mo you said?) then ttc is my 100% recommendation.

I know a few people who had big weddings with young children. I don't know any that weren't legally married before though; with the big wedding postponed to have kids first (or because they were pregnant already).

I'd be concerned that your future financial plans depend on DP and his parents wealth, but you're not married.

I also wouldn't put off children for a big fancy wedding at 30; though.

Flame me for this, but a wedding is for 1 day while a child is for life and that a 'wedding that we want' far outweighs a child, even if that means getting a registry wedding and having only close family there i.e. parents and siblings only, followed by a lunch in a nice restaurant.

We were in the same position as you a few years ago. I'd always wanted to be married and then have children from being very young, I guess it's the ideal.

We'd been together for 7 years or so before we decided to buy a house, the plan was house, wedding, baby. We took forever to buy a house, I was too fussy and we looked for 18months. We hit 30 and then 31 during this time and still no house. So my husband proposed before we bought the house. We then realised if we waited to marry we'd be about 33 maybe 34 if we managed to fall pregnant right away before we'd have a baby.

We sat down and talked about it and decided to try and have a baby. We felt it was the right time even though we weren't yet married. We fell pregnant 2nd month trying and had a baby exactly 12months after getting engaged. We completed on a house the month before the baby arrived too. We then got married 7 months after our daughter arrived. Our wedding was pretty big and at a beautiful venue, it was everything we wanted.

We have no regrets about the order we did things and have since had a 2nd child. So by 33 we had bought a house, had 2 children and got married. If we'd have waited to get married first we would probably be pregnant with our 1st child now. It made no difference not being married 1st (apart from to my in laws, they weren't very pleased) but for us it was the right decision. We plan to have another child in about 2 years, I doubt we'd have had another if we'd have waited to get married before kids.

You've just got to decide what is more important and go for it. I've always had a "life plan" it's a running joke with my friends as I haven't actually done anything according to the plan !