Who is being unreasonable - joint finances

[namechange59295]

Namechanged for this but regular poster.

Please help me work out whether I am being unreasonable, or whether my husband is being unreasonable (I think he is, obviously!).

I'll try to make his as succinct as possible. Been with my DH for 8 years, married for 18 months, DS1 is 7.5 months. DH bought the house we live in when we had been together for 2 years, large cash deposit, small mortgage. I moved in and paid a reduced rent until the mortgage was cleared (approx. 3 years). I have then lived there for free ever since. The justification for this which we both agreed to was that I had to move around an hour from my friends, family and work to allow him to continue to run his business, which would obviously benefit us both in the future. His friends, family and hobbies are on his doorstep (literally, we can see his parents house and the rugby field from our windows!). I hate the town we live in, but we plan to move out of town in the next couple of years and as I have made lots of friends in the wider area I am happy with this prospect, although ultimately I would prefer to move back to where I grew up and where my family are.

So, mortgage is paid off and we both have significant savings, however he has about 3 times what I have. I believe his ability to save has been partly facilitated by me because by moving to his area I have allowed our relationship to continue and him to pursue his professional desires. Of course he has also saved very hard and worked very hard for that money. I have explained this part of our financial situation not to be goady, but I don't want to drip feed and I do think this is relevant to my AIBU.

Since moving in together we have paid into a joint account for food, bills, council tax etc etc. Basically everything that's needed to keep the house running. I have just stopped receiving maternity pay but have been paying in as normal until now. Agreement is that I will stay at home with DS1 because my commute to work means I would work for about £25 per day once we have paid for childcare. We have always been of the understanding that we would both prefer for me to be at home with the children for a certain amount of time whilst they are young and that was a large part of the reason we have settled in DH's area. All discussed and agreed years ago.

I do all of the housework, so cooking, cleaning, washing, ironing, food shopping, bins, recycling, night feeds etc. plus all those other little things like buying birthday presents, cards etc. He does bath and bed with DS 5 nights a week. He plays rugby twice a week and all day on a Saturday, with the occasional night out afterwards (not regular, say once every 2 months or so). He has a lie in at the weekend on both days while I get up with DS.

I have always said that I would prefer our savings to be held jointly, with a direct debit into an account for household stuff and then an equal allowance each for spending money. He has always said that he will just top up our existing joint account as needed. We are both relatively good with money so whilst I'm not really comfortable with this, in theory it should work as long as we are both reasonable.

With regards to our savings, we are both saving for a property investment, so in that sense our intentions for the savings are mutual. He obviously has a great deal more than I do at present, but my parents will be giving us a significant (approx £175k) sum to purchase said property when we find it so he will then benefit from my/their investment. Basically what I am trying to say is that we are on a fairly level playing field once all is taken into consideration.

Fast forward to today. We are looking after his parents dog for a few days while they are away. I took her for a run on the beach this morning and it was lovely down there so I bought a coffee in the cafe and sat outside for a bit longer. The coffee cost £1.50. DH has told me that I should take my own coffee in a flask because buying a coffee out is a waste of money. He says that if I was out for a walk with a friend and we went into the coffee shop that's fine because it's being sociable. I think that considering he disappears for 2 evenings a week plus most of Saturday week in week out (and there is a cost of say £20 a week for this) I should be allowed to buy a bloody coffee every now and then if I want one! I'm not one of these people who walks around with a costa permanently attached to my hand, I hardly ever buy drinks or food out. My social commitments are a buggy fitness group once or twice a week (£4 a time), baby sensory (£5 a week) and slimming world (£5 a week). I then go for a walk with a group of mums once a week and we have a coffee afterwards. This mornings coffee doesn't usually happen, it's only because I was down there with his parents dog and I just fancied a coffee because it was really nice there today. He is saying that if I had been with someone else it would have been fine because it's being sociable. I argued that if his hobby was cycling or running which he might do by himself I would still be happy for him to pursue it, it just so happens that he plays rugby and that is a team sport.

This next bit is the important bit.

He then said that he is spending his money when he does things, and I am spending our money. My argument is that all of the money is our money, including he money that my parents have promised me for the property purchase** whenever that happens.

I think this statement completely summarises his attitude towards me being a stay at home mum and whilst he is happy for me to do so, he is going to want me to account for every last penny I spend because as far as he is concerned, I am not the one who went out and earned it. I also think that this shows he does not value anything I do in the home and whilst I am happy to do it and appreciate that I am fortunate to be able to stay at home, I do not think that attitude is fair.

Well done if you are still reading - I am happy to be told I am unreasonable if I am and in which case I need to start grovelling after the argument we've just had. If I am not being unreasonable and he is being financially controlling, then I am just disappointed in myself for being so stupid as to think we were on the same wavelength.

Thank you.

I can't get past him begrudging you a £1.50 coffee. He's as tight as a duck's arse which is a very unattractive trait. Please leave that £175k where it is so he doesn't get his hands on it. And for God's sake don't tell him you'd get the lion's share of the matrimonial assets or he'll start hiding money.

I second going back to work. You're going to need that job!

Get a job, you’re going to need it I think

Thank you wise mumsnetters, this is honestly the most useful post I've ever started on here.

All these years I have been grateful to him and what he has provided me with. That is going to change.

I don't want DS to grow up thinking his wife, should they decide that she will stay at home, has such little worth.

£175k going nowhere for now.

I've told him that unless things change I don't want to be married anymore. I set out exactly what it will cost him if/when I go back to work full time.

I am pretty good with money and he has admitted that. He is just a tight fisted misery, who is happy to spend money on himself but doesn't want me to do the same.

I've done a couple of AIBU threads and never once had a 100% agreement!

My marriage was like yours in the early days of having kids. My DH really struggled to understand the value of what i did as a SAHM. He often has lots of cash where i prefer using a card and i hated it so much when he checked the bank balance because it would always mean a row about how much i had spent. One time he even told me to hand over my card so he could cut it up! I was so angry. Long story short, he hasnt looked at the bank account now for 10 years - managing money is all down to me now- and no rows at all since then.

Just wanted to say people can change, so dont give up. But the way he is not sharing, is quite twisted. For a marriage to work happily you both need to be equally committed to giving to each other.

Basically you live together but are not a couple. Go back to full time work ASAP and childcare costs are a family joint cost and not paid from your salary.

It’s not just the money. Why are you doing pretty much everything at home? Are you getting any free time? 2 evenings, every Saturday, every weekend lie in? You are doing all night feeds? Fuck that.

OP I am sorry to say that your DH is a disgrace.

With a man like this, being a SAHM is unfortunately not an option. Even if you return to work, he will still use the fact that he earns more to control you. It is unlikely to make much difference.

I think all you can do is this -

Sit him down and tell him that, following his comment about the £1.50, you have had a watershed moment.

You have lost respect for him as a husband, father and a man.

Tell him a real man puts his family first. If he wants you to look after HIS child full-time, then he can bloody well get a grip and support his family properly.

He has revealed himself to be controlling. Controlling men are pathetic excuses for humans and you see right through him .

You have a child who you will not expose to his petty-minded bull*t.

See how he reacts to that. Just state the facts plainly.

I sincerely wish you all the best.

If he’s taking this seriously and is going to treat family money, as you know, family money, make sure you take EVERYTHING into consideration.

You need to have a pension pot - money for this comes from that family pot every single month.
Spending on your DC comes out of the family pot - not your own spending pot.

But I would seriously think long and hard before leaving work and becoming a SAHM even if DH agrees to change. Don’t give up the chance to be able to make your own money of things with DH - he doesn’t seem like the type of man who would want to make sure his DC mother is looked after (so she in turn can look after the DC).

Such good advice but one more point from someone who has recently been on maternity leave and therefore been “bringing in” zero to the pot.
My DH used to say to me to make sure I was looking after myself as looking after DC is a long and tiring day (even when you love it!!!). I also did SlimmingWorld. He encouraged me to buy a new top or go out for a drink or get a spa treatment every now and again. Even though it was “his” money. Because he appreciated me.

Maybe you should start charging for the childcare you are providing for the child who is also his! Or return to work and employ a nanny, and a cleaner to enable you to work! Gosh that costs around £20k a year for the nanny and quite a bit for a cleaner for 5 or so hours a week. Some men just don't quite get it. Thankfully judges in divorce matters have.

1. You have sacrificed your earning potential for the foreseeable future in order to have a child, with him.This will impact your earning potential for many years and studies have indicated it is unlikely your career will ever recover from taking time out for childcare and children. In other words, because you have had a child and not returned to work, your salary will be less than if this had not happened.
2. You are providing a childcare service for the family.
3. You are providing a cleaning service for the family.
4. You are providing a housekeeping service for the family.
5. Were you to divorce he would be required to provide maintenance at around 20percent of his income, plus a capital sum.
6. Marriage is a partnership and is about enablement and security.

I think you need to sit down one night, just the two of you for a romantic dinner and then hit him with the approximate costs of the services you provide for free. A bit of negotiation and some frank talking is what is needed here. How dare he suggest you should not go for a coffee! Money should either be pooled, or a joint account for your household and personal expenses that he pays into. Put him straight.

Good for you for having that conversation with him, OP.

Let us know how it goes.

My husband pays me to stay at home. YANBU

Does he take his own lunch to work? Do you know how much he spends on coffees, lunch and general fripperies? I bet you don't.

What's his is his and what's yours is also his. He is hugely resentful of you and thinks you owe him. I bet his male colleagues are dripping poison into his ear too because I've seen it happen 'oh she's onto a good thing, sitting at home while you work your arse off' stuff. There is no consideration of what you've given up to move to his area, you've been put into the gold digger box and he has totally bought into it.

I'd take my lovely baby and my parents' £175k and buy a house near my friends and family if I were you. He's a shit

The thing, one of the things, that would bother me is him telling you when it's OK to buy a coffee. So he gives you permission if you are with your friends, but not if you're alone.

It's like he has a rule book.

Your mum sounds lovely and I'm pleased that this thread is helping you.

This isn't a great situation tbh. But you can't be an SAHM and have this my money/your money attitude. Either you need to earn your own money or earned money must be shared. When you've nothing coming in making you pay bills is totally ludicrous.

I would think twice about taking this £175K from your parents because in any divorce settlement he might have a claim on it. And sometimes it's small things like complaining you spent £1.75 on a coffee that makes you think do I really want to continue in this relationship for the rest of my life.

In his defence (and I am not generally defending him here) I don't think he thinks what's mine is his. Whilst we both want to move, he is happy to stay here longer until we (he?) has saved up more money. I'm the one who doesn't like it here so I'm the one who wants to move within the next couple of years. My parents helped both my siblings out property wise and obviously having the £175k means we can make the move earlier than we might have otherwise been able to.

That said, you are all quite right about it being taken into divorce settlement, so it won't be going anywhere for a long time yet.

I think this relatively minor issue has sadly just confirmed what I probably knew about him just seeing me as a cheap way to facilitate his life. I doubt he even loves me.

Oh namechange59295 that is so sad to read.

I would be putting that 175k into a property of my own and get back to work ASAP! It’s not going to end well.

Oh OP your last post is so sad. I'm glad you are taking the advice.
I'm late to the thread but just want to echo in your position you should not be trying to justify a £1.50 coffee. He sounds like a tight, controlling person.

Op, if he thinks yours is yours and his is his, why did you ever think being a stay at home parent would be different, that he would suddenly change.

I can't comment on whether he loves you or not, but begrudging someone an occasional coffee is fairly extreme. He doesn't seem to begrudge himself though and appears to favour a disparity, that he is entitled and you aren't.

If you intend to continue in this marriage, you will need to return to work, for both your own dignity and your own equality. You can't allow yourself to be treated like this, and importantly you can't allow your children to grow up watching it.

My very first LTB on MN

OP

I am a LP with sole custody and read your post thinking I am more free, in so many ways, in comparison.

Never doubt that if you do have to go it alone with your DS, you will manage and even excel.

I wrote everything down and he has admitted he was wrong. As I predicted he told me that if we want to move we need to watch the pennies, which I don't disagree with but my argument is that it's not something that I do often.

We will see what my boss comes back with, but going back to work full time completely defeats the object of me moving here. The idea was that I would move here as he has much higher earning capacity than I do allowing me to stay at home, which is what we agreed. But you are all right, if this marriage goes tits up I need a job. At least DS and I can move back home with the money mum and dad have put aside for me.

Op I totally agree with most previous posts.

As an aside I just wanted to add about the coffee spend although in light of his general tightness etc it's not that relevant however...

Dh and I have shared finances but we never had a good grip on them.. Had rough idea of budget but when out never knew of we could afford hot chocolate or wine.

We totally broke down all bills.. Right down to what we needed for petrol when all that sorted we agreed amount to spend on weekend so that money is for weekend spends.. Eg drinks out or meal or family outing. All other money is divided up, holiday saving, birthday, Xmas.. So we know we can have weekend spend and its not robbing money from elsewhere.

So.. If you did similar you can enjoy money for drink and no one is stressing but overall.. Your money situation is dire. As pp have said.

OP, my worry would be that even if you go back to work full-time, he will still think he can dictate as to what is appropriate spending as he is the higher earner. This is his mentality. I doubt he's likely to take on any housework to compensate, so you would be in much the same position, just more exhausted.

It's his attitude that is the issue - not your working hours.