Who is being unreasonable - joint finances

[namechange59295]

Namechanged for this but regular poster.

Please help me work out whether I am being unreasonable, or whether my husband is being unreasonable (I think he is, obviously!).

I'll try to make his as succinct as possible. Been with my DH for 8 years, married for 18 months, DS1 is 7.5 months. DH bought the house we live in when we had been together for 2 years, large cash deposit, small mortgage. I moved in and paid a reduced rent until the mortgage was cleared (approx. 3 years). I have then lived there for free ever since. The justification for this which we both agreed to was that I had to move around an hour from my friends, family and work to allow him to continue to run his business, which would obviously benefit us both in the future. His friends, family and hobbies are on his doorstep (literally, we can see his parents house and the rugby field from our windows!). I hate the town we live in, but we plan to move out of town in the next couple of years and as I have made lots of friends in the wider area I am happy with this prospect, although ultimately I would prefer to move back to where I grew up and where my family are.

So, mortgage is paid off and we both have significant savings, however he has about 3 times what I have. I believe his ability to save has been partly facilitated by me because by moving to his area I have allowed our relationship to continue and him to pursue his professional desires. Of course he has also saved very hard and worked very hard for that money. I have explained this part of our financial situation not to be goady, but I don't want to drip feed and I do think this is relevant to my AIBU.

Since moving in together we have paid into a joint account for food, bills, council tax etc etc. Basically everything that's needed to keep the house running. I have just stopped receiving maternity pay but have been paying in as normal until now. Agreement is that I will stay at home with DS1 because my commute to work means I would work for about £25 per day once we have paid for childcare. We have always been of the understanding that we would both prefer for me to be at home with the children for a certain amount of time whilst they are young and that was a large part of the reason we have settled in DH's area. All discussed and agreed years ago.

I do all of the housework, so cooking, cleaning, washing, ironing, food shopping, bins, recycling, night feeds etc. plus all those other little things like buying birthday presents, cards etc. He does bath and bed with DS 5 nights a week. He plays rugby twice a week and all day on a Saturday, with the occasional night out afterwards (not regular, say once every 2 months or so). He has a lie in at the weekend on both days while I get up with DS.

I have always said that I would prefer our savings to be held jointly, with a direct debit into an account for household stuff and then an equal allowance each for spending money. He has always said that he will just top up our existing joint account as needed. We are both relatively good with money so whilst I'm not really comfortable with this, in theory it should work as long as we are both reasonable.

With regards to our savings, we are both saving for a property investment, so in that sense our intentions for the savings are mutual. He obviously has a great deal more than I do at present, but my parents will be giving us a significant (approx £175k) sum to purchase said property when we find it so he will then benefit from my/their investment. Basically what I am trying to say is that we are on a fairly level playing field once all is taken into consideration.

Fast forward to today. We are looking after his parents dog for a few days while they are away. I took her for a run on the beach this morning and it was lovely down there so I bought a coffee in the cafe and sat outside for a bit longer. The coffee cost £1.50. DH has told me that I should take my own coffee in a flask because buying a coffee out is a waste of money. He says that if I was out for a walk with a friend and we went into the coffee shop that's fine because it's being sociable. I think that considering he disappears for 2 evenings a week plus most of Saturday week in week out (and there is a cost of say £20 a week for this) I should be allowed to buy a bloody coffee every now and then if I want one! I'm not one of these people who walks around with a costa permanently attached to my hand, I hardly ever buy drinks or food out. My social commitments are a buggy fitness group once or twice a week (£4 a time), baby sensory (£5 a week) and slimming world (£5 a week). I then go for a walk with a group of mums once a week and we have a coffee afterwards. This mornings coffee doesn't usually happen, it's only because I was down there with his parents dog and I just fancied a coffee because it was really nice there today. He is saying that if I had been with someone else it would have been fine because it's being sociable. I argued that if his hobby was cycling or running which he might do by himself I would still be happy for him to pursue it, it just so happens that he plays rugby and that is a team sport.

This next bit is the important bit.

He then said that he is spending his money when he does things, and I am spending our money. My argument is that all of the money is our money, including he money that my parents have promised me for the property purchase** whenever that happens.

I think this statement completely summarises his attitude towards me being a stay at home mum and whilst he is happy for me to do so, he is going to want me to account for every last penny I spend because as far as he is concerned, I am not the one who went out and earned it. I also think that this shows he does not value anything I do in the home and whilst I am happy to do it and appreciate that I am fortunate to be able to stay at home, I do not think that attitude is fair.

Well done if you are still reading - I am happy to be told I am unreasonable if I am and in which case I need to start grovelling after the argument we've just had. If I am not being unreasonable and he is being financially controlling, then I am just disappointed in myself for being so stupid as to think we were on the same wavelength.

Thank you.

@g1itterati - exactly this, unless we buy in help I am sure I will still end up doing everything anyway. So like you say, same crap just fewer hours to do it in.

I wonder where he gets his attitudes from and what his own background is?

OP I have been a SAHM for 15 years and I can't recall my DH ever asking for an explanation of any if my spending. If he had ever turned to me and accused me of spending "his" money, I would have done something quite drastic like gone in holiday with the kids or changed the locks to the house. I would not cook for him or anything else and he could sod off frankly because I couldn't have any respect for that mentality.

Just as an aside I have met two men in the last couple of years, each with three children, each outraged that their exes got an equal share of "their" assets. Each of them used the same phrase of the ex, who had been SAHM "she brought nothing to the table". Utterly shocking how the contribution of raising 3 children and in all probability being his skivvy was considered as entirely without value.

Well you can't win because there are other men who claim they were neglected by their working wives - living separate lives, blah, blah and this is why they had the affair - now she wants to get her hands on
everything, yadda yadda.

Fools the lot of them. Do you think your DH is capable of change OP?

Did you put to him that he could cut back on his hobbies to save money instead of begrudging you a £1.50 coffee?

Read up on financial abuse op. And do not give up your job.

I'd also stop doing stuff for him, washing etc and insist on a lie in yourself.

Sadly I don't think he will change though.

Ps, you don't need to justify yourself. By agreeing that you need to tighten up is just pacifying him. You should be angry with him about this.

It sounds like you're both nitpicking over every little thing and to me that's more of a problem then whether or not you have a joint account.

@g1itterati - I think there might be potential for change. I am going away for 3 days at the end of next month so he will have DS. He will find it quite hard work, I just hope he won't rely on his mum for too much to make his life easier.

I think it's his mum who is answerable for his attitude. His dad is fairly doting of his mum, meaning that his mum is very difficult to please and always thinks she's right. His mum in turn has then mollycoddled DH and his sister which I think has made them quite entitled and self righteous.

@LeighaJ not sure how I am nitpicking, I always think I'm quite laid back considering we've got a small baby and he's literally carried on with life as it was pre DS. I know I've been quite detailed in my OP but I just wanted to be accurate so I got relevant responses.

OP I can understand you not wanting to work FT, but are you definitely going back in some capacity?

I was a SAHM for a while and everything was shared. His salary went into the joint account and all bills and child related stuff came out of that. We also set up a SO (equal amounts) into our sole accounts, to spend as we wished. If DH had suggested that he should have a higher amount because he earned it, I can't quite imagine the fallout. Would your DH go for something like that?

How you can be construed ro be nit picking is beyond me. To be in a position to have to justify spending £1.50 is intolerable.

If he says you (both) need to be careful with money - quite obviously you agree.

The way to be careful with money is that you pool ALL money together. Saving in joint names or split half half.

All his earnings go into a joint account. From there, you have pots of money going out:

1. An account covering DDs/SOs for essential bills, DS costs (playgroup, clothes, shoes, equipment, birthday parties, presents for his little friends parties etc), all your family food shop (make sure the food shop budget is realistic and covers household spend such as soap washing powder etc)
2. Savings account (equal amounts to yours and his if you have separate accounts)
3. An equal amount each to your personal accounts - this is what you use for coffees, haircuts, etc.

If he is prepared to share his life and finances with you, the above is perfectly reasonable. If he doesn't want to consider it or thinks it's unfair - he doesn't value your contribution and it's not looking good for your relationship.

When l met my dh he had his own house. I moved in and continued working until our dc came along. All our money was in a joint account. He earned twice my salary. Never once was this mentioned and l wasn't even great with money in those days.. Then l was a SAHM with full access to that joint account. Later l returned to work . I can't believe your dh quibbled over a coffee. Just let rip and tell him whats what.Tell him you have changed your mind and are going back to work. I would go to work and each pay half of childcare. And l would be very slow to introduce that 175000 into the equation until stuff gets sorted between you. He is completely out of order and don't doubt for one second.

If you're going back to work FT, you need to ensure that it's on an equal footing with his work - don't let him pull that "I earn more than you, so you need to do all the nursery drop offs/pick ups/sick days etc". And he'll have to do half of the housework too. If you were a team, you might as a team decide to prioritise his work if it brings in more for the family. But you're not a team - he's expecting you to help him to earn money for him.

If you're going to be a SAHM, definitely, definitely revisit the conversation about a joint account. IMO, if you (as a family) have decided that you'll give up your job to raise DS, then his income should be joint, and you should both get an allowance from that.

OP when DH and I got engaged, I can't remember how much more than me he earned, but it was maybe about ten times more something like that. We just put everything in a joint account and that was it. Savings in joint accounts, property, everything. I couldn't tell you who spends more out of the two of us tbh, it all blurs as we have 4 kids and we don't keep track of individual spending patterns. I think this is how most people live. Your DH should be encouraging you to treat yourself now that you have a baby - does he want you to get depressed?
I'm glad you're going away and tell his mother not to help him. He will be shattered when you get back.
Tomorrow is Saturday. Tell him you are off shopping for a few hours and go and treat yourself. To hell with him and his £1.50!

I could not be with someone where I had to account for what I spent.

I didn't work for years. DH has always had a full time job. I have paid all the big things, holidays, DIY, house deposit, while DH pays the main bills. Our money is completely separate and always has been. But we have equal spending money when everything is paid out, despite DH earning a lot more than me. I was a SAHM for years, I still didnt6do absolutely everything. Just exactly what does this man bring to your life? Does he do anything at home? Does he ever look after his child? Why don't you get a lie in at the weekend?

No way would I let my parents invest their money. He'll be entitled to half.

Does he tell you he loves you? Your statement was so sad and you sound so resigned.

Why don't you get a lie-in and he does?

He's acting like a Prince and you're letting him...

Yes OP why does he get 2 lie ins and you get none?

This is such a depressing read. I split with my first husband due to finances. We were on different pages all the time. It was exhausting.

Whatever you do, do not take 175k from your parents, if there is a chance your relationship is on shaky ground. As it will all be shared in the event of a split.

Don't forget, along with the invoices for cleaning, cooking and childcare, you charge him for dog-walking!

Wow. OP you deserve better than this. What a pathetic excuse for a father. No respect for you at all over a £1.50 coffee.

'I think this relatively minor issue has sadly'

No, it's not. I hope you realise this now. A good friend of mine is in the process of divorce now. 25 years of marriage. 2 disabled children, 1 of whom did not survive to adulthood. He's pulling the 'contributed nothing' lark.

My mother's been married to my father for 54 years in June. She hasn't worked FT outside the home since 1967. Do you think he'd pull her up for a £1.50 coffee? Would he fuck and my sister left home in 1992.

Go back to work. Tell him it's a fait accompli and how will you split childcare and housework. He balks you don't play ball. 'The arrangement isn't working for me.' BAD move to jack in FT work with a spouse like this.

And start asking round for good divorce lawyers.

I have full access to everything my dh earns which I think is my right after bearing his kids

My dh is a little like this. But only on big things as he’s an accountant. He had a bit of a tight and crappy attitude to money as he was raised in quite a poor household but I’m a sahm to our two disabled children. The money goes into the joint account. We did have a big issue where all left over savings went into his isa. But he doesn’t ask why I’ve spent stuff. I’ve had to book an appointment with a solicitor (unrelated to our marriage) and it’ll cost at least £300 an hour. I can tell it pains him but he’s not complaining too much.

His attitude in general is bad enough but to your finances is worrying. Retain your freedom and go back to work.

I would keep the 175000 and use it to buy a property that you can let out. Then you will have an income. If he gets all petty about 1.50 being his money, that 175000 is your money, and any income generated from it is your money
You will also have a fall back if you ever have to LTB!