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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Who is being unreasonable - joint finances

449 replies

namechange59295 · 16/03/2018 14:29

Namechanged for this but regular poster.

Please help me work out whether I am being unreasonable, or whether my husband is being unreasonable (I think he is, obviously!).

I'll try to make his as succinct as possible. Been with my DH for 8 years, married for 18 months, DS1 is 7.5 months. DH bought the house we live in when we had been together for 2 years, large cash deposit, small mortgage. I moved in and paid a reduced rent until the mortgage was cleared (approx. 3 years). I have then lived there for free ever since. The justification for this which we both agreed to was that I had to move around an hour from my friends, family and work to allow him to continue to run his business, which would obviously benefit us both in the future. His friends, family and hobbies are on his doorstep (literally, we can see his parents house and the rugby field from our windows!). I hate the town we live in, but we plan to move out of town in the next couple of years and as I have made lots of friends in the wider area I am happy with this prospect, although ultimately I would prefer to move back to where I grew up and where my family are.

So, mortgage is paid off and we both have significant savings, however he has about 3 times what I have. I believe his ability to save has been partly facilitated by me because by moving to his area I have allowed our relationship to continue and him to pursue his professional desires. Of course he has also saved very hard and worked very hard for that money. I have explained this part of our financial situation not to be goady, but I don't want to drip feed and I do think this is relevant to my AIBU.

Since moving in together we have paid into a joint account for food, bills, council tax etc etc. Basically everything that's needed to keep the house running. I have just stopped receiving maternity pay but have been paying in as normal until now. Agreement is that I will stay at home with DS1 because my commute to work means I would work for about £25 per day once we have paid for childcare. We have always been of the understanding that we would both prefer for me to be at home with the children for a certain amount of time whilst they are young and that was a large part of the reason we have settled in DH's area. All discussed and agreed years ago.

I do all of the housework, so cooking, cleaning, washing, ironing, food shopping, bins, recycling, night feeds etc. plus all those other little things like buying birthday presents, cards etc. He does bath and bed with DS 5 nights a week. He plays rugby twice a week and all day on a Saturday, with the occasional night out afterwards (not regular, say once every 2 months or so). He has a lie in at the weekend on both days while I get up with DS.

I have always said that I would prefer our savings to be held jointly, with a direct debit into an account for household stuff and then an equal allowance each for spending money. He has always said that he will just top up our existing joint account as needed. We are both relatively good with money so whilst I'm not really comfortable with this, in theory it should work as long as we are both reasonable.

With regards to our savings, we are both saving for a property investment, so in that sense our intentions for the savings are mutual. He obviously has a great deal more than I do at present, but my parents will be giving us a significant (approx £175k) sum to purchase said property when we find it so he will then benefit from my/their investment. Basically what I am trying to say is that we are on a fairly level playing field once all is taken into consideration.

Fast forward to today. We are looking after his parents dog for a few days while they are away. I took her for a run on the beach this morning and it was lovely down there so I bought a coffee in the cafe and sat outside for a bit longer. The coffee cost £1.50. DH has told me that I should take my own coffee in a flask because buying a coffee out is a waste of money. He says that if I was out for a walk with a friend and we went into the coffee shop that's fine because it's being sociable. I think that considering he disappears for 2 evenings a week plus most of Saturday week in week out (and there is a cost of say £20 a week for this) I should be allowed to buy a bloody coffee every now and then if I want one! I'm not one of these people who walks around with a costa permanently attached to my hand, I hardly ever buy drinks or food out. My social commitments are a buggy fitness group once or twice a week (£4 a time), baby sensory (£5 a week) and slimming world (£5 a week). I then go for a walk with a group of mums once a week and we have a coffee afterwards. This mornings coffee doesn't usually happen, it's only because I was down there with his parents dog and I just fancied a coffee because it was really nice there today. He is saying that if I had been with someone else it would have been fine because it's being sociable. I argued that if his hobby was cycling or running which he might do by himself I would still be happy for him to pursue it, it just so happens that he plays rugby and that is a team sport.

This next bit is the important bit.

He then said that he is spending his money when he does things, and I am spending our money. My argument is that all of the money is our money, including he money that my parents have promised me for the property purchase** whenever that happens.

I think this statement completely summarises his attitude towards me being a stay at home mum and whilst he is happy for me to do so, he is going to want me to account for every last penny I spend because as far as he is concerned, I am not the one who went out and earned it. I also think that this shows he does not value anything I do in the home and whilst I am happy to do it and appreciate that I am fortunate to be able to stay at home, I do not think that attitude is fair.

Well done if you are still reading - I am happy to be told I am unreasonable if I am and in which case I need to start grovelling after the argument we've just had. If I am not being unreasonable and he is being financially controlling, then I am just disappointed in myself for being so stupid as to think we were on the same wavelength.

Thank you.

OP posts:
namechange59295 · 18/03/2018 20:31

Agreed, MN at its best. Over 350 posts of advice, support and experience, great stuff

OP posts:
Ellie56 · 18/03/2018 20:42

Given that these savings were largely pre-DS, would you let this slide?

Nope.

If you had a traditional wedding ceremony you may remember the words are all my worldly goods I thee endow, not some of them.

FlashTheSloth · 18/03/2018 21:02

You and your mum really have your heads screwed on, which is so refreshing! Astounding amount of women still think they have rights when not married and will not hear otherwise, think it's perfectly normal to pay everything whilst the man pays nothing or not as much and they don't want to ask etc etc. I don't understand it myself.

Neweternal · 18/03/2018 21:05

Ellie56. I was going to say that a while back, but so many people don't think like this anymore, they talk like there in a flatshare. I think I'm out of touch.

SecondaryConfusion · 18/03/2018 21:45

OP you’re making great progress - it was a very expensive coffee for him indeed.

Sorry if I missed it - what proportion of the family income is going to into a pension for you (not paid for by the £300 personal spending).

Also sounds as if he is over the child benefit threshold - make sure you claim for it (without taking the money if he doesn’t want to include in a tax return) as you’ll build up NI credits.

dazzlingdeborahrose · 18/03/2018 21:55

Sorry to hear that you're having a bit of a time but glad you're making progress. I would very much advise going back to work. I work 3 days a week and have done since my 2nd child was born. Like your hubby, mine owns his own business. Over the course of the years it has grown and become increasingly successful. He earns in excess of £120,000. I earn £26,000. All of the money goes into the pot. I have never had to justify what I spend and neither does he. We discuss large purchases, have 3 properties in joint names. I have an investment portfolio which my husband set up to to provide me with additional retirement income because my pension has taken a hit due to my being part time. He didn't discuss this with me at the time. He just told me he'd done it.
Oh and re the coffee? Last time I was on maternity leave (unpaid) I happened to mention I'd seen a nice top while I'd been out that day. I hadn't bought it because I wasn't being paid. "Don't be so stupid. Go and buy the top" was the response. That's how it's supposed to work.

OliviaBenson · 18/03/2018 21:59

While I think you are making progress, I don't think he is at all. He's just coming up with excuses. When the dust settles and you've given up your job he'll revert to type.

You aren't in LTB territory yet BUT to quit your job and become a SAHM would be foolish. Don't do it.

LoveInTokyo · 18/03/2018 22:07

I think it’s clear that OP isn’t in LTB territory at the moment.

He has made lots of encouraging noises since Friday - we have gone from her being denied a £1.50 coffee to him agreeing to change a lot of things in a short space of time. Rome wasn’t built in a day.

OP I think it’s great that you’ve stood up to him and that you’re on the same page as your mum and that you’re going to get some legal and financial advice. Keep doing what you’re doing. But maybe set a date in your own head, say in 6 months or a year’s time, when you promise yourself that you will look at how things are and think about whether your husband has really changed his attitude towards your marriage, or whether he’s back to his old tricks. Then you can reassess your relationship, having given him the opportunity to change.

It sounds as though other parts of your relationship might be better.

namechange59295 · 19/03/2018 07:44

@Ellie56 - the only reason I would agree to let the £85k stay in his name is because the intention is that the £85k would be put into the new house which would be 50:50. My £175k + £30k would be going in as well, but obviously I would know for certain that the £85k is essentially going to be shared when I have to put in my investment. I'd only be agreeing to this if I go onto the deeds of this house.

OP posts:
Quartz2208 · 19/03/2018 09:11

When you buy the house not only should you be on the deeds (although you are married) you definitely need to protect your parents 175k by having a charge on it that goes back to them. I would imagine your Mum would demand it

Myimaginarycathasfleas · 19/03/2018 09:41

OP we are all assuming that you and DH are equally responsible spenders. I mean this kindly so please don't be offended, but could his caution arise out of you being a bit more carefree with the pennies? If so, his inclination to keep hold of the purse strings might be about building and protecting your assets for both of you, not just him.

I still maintain that married means joint everything and you should push for this, but maybe you need to get to the bottom of what his issues about money are.

Snowmagedon · 19/03/2018 09:45

Agree so many set ups sound like a flat share.

Snowmagedon · 19/03/2018 09:46

my op has considerable savings herself and her dh has admitted he has no worries with her over spending and that she is good with money

Snowmagedon · 19/03/2018 09:47

quartz how do you put charge on the house, can it be done retrospectively... Does it need solicitor? Ie can anyone just ring up and do it

Snowmagedon · 19/03/2018 09:55

Agree since he has an entrenched look after no 1 mindset... He has come a long way Grin, I do agree however to without a doubt set a date of 6 months... To re assess then.. Ie was it all talk and bluster...

Quartz2208 · 19/03/2018 09:59

It’s basically something that says people have lent money towards it who are not on the deeds and if the house gets sold they need the money back (after the mortgage lender). Only people who lend money can ask for one and its a way of safeguarding money lent (particularly from parents)

namechange59295 · 19/03/2018 10:01

@Myimaginarycathasfleas - not offended at all, good question. When we first got together I was more carefree with money, but in more recent years he would agree that we both have similar outlooks towards spending. I don't think he is worried that I am a big spender. He has said he's happy that we are both responsible with money.

OP posts:
namechange59295 · 19/03/2018 10:08

@Quartz2208 that's very useful, thank you.

@Snowmagedon it does sound like a flat share and I that attitude has just evolved from when we moved in together. At that point we did treat things that was because when I moved to his area I wasn't sure how things would work out. Obviously we both hoped that I would find friends and be happy to stay in his area, but had I been totally miserable I might have moved home and I wouldn't have wanted to have money tied up in a house there - be that by putting money into the property or whatever. We started out with the attitude that the house would be his, we'd split bills, I'd pay him a monthly contribution which would go towards the mortgage (he would have rented rooms out otherwise, so that's why we referred to it as rent) and until now we've just bumbled along like that. In hindsight we should have sorted it out years ago, certainly when we got married, but it's only just come to a head because there is going to be an actual change to the way money is brought into the house.

I'm not for one minute saying that's the right way to do it, I feel stupid for letting it rumble on until now. Just trying to explain how we've both got into this mindset. I doubt I'm the only one.

OP posts:
namechange59295 · 19/03/2018 10:13

Just thought I'd share this link which I'm finding helpful, might be interesting for others finding this thread useful

rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-information/family-law/marriage-your-rights-to-your-home/

OP posts:
Quartz2208 · 19/03/2018 10:35

Yes we have one on our house from my parents money who lent us £100k = is not just about divorce but also if the house was repossessed, they would be seen as the next creditor to be paid from the proceeds. It is an entirely sensible move to protect their money and is one which I would do if I lent my children money as well

Snowmagedon · 19/03/2018 11:02

Op my own dh needed gentle prodding as well! It took a long time to get joint account and I'm still not on deeds.

It happens.. Life moves fast with babies and other stuff this can get pushed back! I didn't mean yours as a flat share I was thinking about other posters actually who really divide things up in clinical way.. Dh and I just share everything now. But it did take a while for him to get there.

yoyo1234 · 19/03/2018 11:16

If both houses are in joint names do you need the charge ( and have your siblings done the charge thing, also could it make getting a mortgage on the property more difficult?). He has put in circa £295,000 and you circa £214,000. Then you have equal split of finances going forward. The original arrangement for your property was designed to suit you both at the time. Times change this could be an alternative.

Quartz2208 · 19/03/2018 11:51

Yes because its her parents money not hers - it makes them a creditor as well which helps

You can make it clear that is the breakdown of money coming out if they sell but it does not have the same protection for her parents money

yoyo1234 · 19/03/2018 12:16

Devil's advocate here....If it is different for op then the other siblings it could breed resentment in their relationship. Op is in the same field as her DH later maybe she could be incorporated in to the business ( more chance for DH to remain under the 40percent tax bracket and more dividends tax free for the family pot). Not sure how some mortgage companies would view a charge making up a big percentage of the deposit on s property- I assume they demand their repayment of loan first minimum. My in-laws gave us £160000 no questions asked went into a property in joint names they have said how happy they are ( no charge). Tbf I do not think I would have minded a charge but I might have done if they had not requested a charge from dh's siblings also given money.

namechange59295 · 19/03/2018 12:36

@yoyo1234 I see where you're coming from however we've not all had a straight cash injection. My sister was the first one, she was given an barn on the edge of the fame that she converted and sold about 8 years later when her family had outgrown it. Then my brother had a slightly different arrangement, I think his payments are staged because he works on the farm and bought a property that adjoins it, also he's not married to his partner, they had no DCs when they bought it and have been together for less time that me and my DH. I'm not really sure how his arrangement with mum and dad works but again it's not a straight forward cash injection. I'm the only one getting it that way because I don't live or work there so can't benefit in other ways if you see what I mean.

I know that all sounds a bit garbled but just trying to explain that's it's not a case of mum and dad writing out a cheque for each one of us. Mum and dad are very fair people and I have a great relationship with all my siblings so whilst it's a very good point I'm not too worried about the resentment issue.

OP posts:
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