Who is being unreasonable - joint finances

[namechange59295]

Namechanged for this but regular poster.

Please help me work out whether I am being unreasonable, or whether my husband is being unreasonable (I think he is, obviously!).

I'll try to make his as succinct as possible. Been with my DH for 8 years, married for 18 months, DS1 is 7.5 months. DH bought the house we live in when we had been together for 2 years, large cash deposit, small mortgage. I moved in and paid a reduced rent until the mortgage was cleared (approx. 3 years). I have then lived there for free ever since. The justification for this which we both agreed to was that I had to move around an hour from my friends, family and work to allow him to continue to run his business, which would obviously benefit us both in the future. His friends, family and hobbies are on his doorstep (literally, we can see his parents house and the rugby field from our windows!). I hate the town we live in, but we plan to move out of town in the next couple of years and as I have made lots of friends in the wider area I am happy with this prospect, although ultimately I would prefer to move back to where I grew up and where my family are.

So, mortgage is paid off and we both have significant savings, however he has about 3 times what I have. I believe his ability to save has been partly facilitated by me because by moving to his area I have allowed our relationship to continue and him to pursue his professional desires. Of course he has also saved very hard and worked very hard for that money. I have explained this part of our financial situation not to be goady, but I don't want to drip feed and I do think this is relevant to my AIBU.

Since moving in together we have paid into a joint account for food, bills, council tax etc etc. Basically everything that's needed to keep the house running. I have just stopped receiving maternity pay but have been paying in as normal until now. Agreement is that I will stay at home with DS1 because my commute to work means I would work for about £25 per day once we have paid for childcare. We have always been of the understanding that we would both prefer for me to be at home with the children for a certain amount of time whilst they are young and that was a large part of the reason we have settled in DH's area. All discussed and agreed years ago.

I do all of the housework, so cooking, cleaning, washing, ironing, food shopping, bins, recycling, night feeds etc. plus all those other little things like buying birthday presents, cards etc. He does bath and bed with DS 5 nights a week. He plays rugby twice a week and all day on a Saturday, with the occasional night out afterwards (not regular, say once every 2 months or so). He has a lie in at the weekend on both days while I get up with DS.

I have always said that I would prefer our savings to be held jointly, with a direct debit into an account for household stuff and then an equal allowance each for spending money. He has always said that he will just top up our existing joint account as needed. We are both relatively good with money so whilst I'm not really comfortable with this, in theory it should work as long as we are both reasonable.

With regards to our savings, we are both saving for a property investment, so in that sense our intentions for the savings are mutual. He obviously has a great deal more than I do at present, but my parents will be giving us a significant (approx £175k) sum to purchase said property when we find it so he will then benefit from my/their investment. Basically what I am trying to say is that we are on a fairly level playing field once all is taken into consideration.

Fast forward to today. We are looking after his parents dog for a few days while they are away. I took her for a run on the beach this morning and it was lovely down there so I bought a coffee in the cafe and sat outside for a bit longer. The coffee cost £1.50. DH has told me that I should take my own coffee in a flask because buying a coffee out is a waste of money. He says that if I was out for a walk with a friend and we went into the coffee shop that's fine because it's being sociable. I think that considering he disappears for 2 evenings a week plus most of Saturday week in week out (and there is a cost of say £20 a week for this) I should be allowed to buy a bloody coffee every now and then if I want one! I'm not one of these people who walks around with a costa permanently attached to my hand, I hardly ever buy drinks or food out. My social commitments are a buggy fitness group once or twice a week (£4 a time), baby sensory (£5 a week) and slimming world (£5 a week). I then go for a walk with a group of mums once a week and we have a coffee afterwards. This mornings coffee doesn't usually happen, it's only because I was down there with his parents dog and I just fancied a coffee because it was really nice there today. He is saying that if I had been with someone else it would have been fine because it's being sociable. I argued that if his hobby was cycling or running which he might do by himself I would still be happy for him to pursue it, it just so happens that he plays rugby and that is a team sport.

This next bit is the important bit.

He then said that he is spending his money when he does things, and I am spending our money. My argument is that all of the money is our money, including he money that my parents have promised me for the property purchase** whenever that happens.

I think this statement completely summarises his attitude towards me being a stay at home mum and whilst he is happy for me to do so, he is going to want me to account for every last penny I spend because as far as he is concerned, I am not the one who went out and earned it. I also think that this shows he does not value anything I do in the home and whilst I am happy to do it and appreciate that I am fortunate to be able to stay at home, I do not think that attitude is fair.

Well done if you are still reading - I am happy to be told I am unreasonable if I am and in which case I need to start grovelling after the argument we've just had. If I am not being unreasonable and he is being financially controlling, then I am just disappointed in myself for being so stupid as to think we were on the same wavelength.

Thank you.

I think BewareofDragons gives the best advice!

Exactly that regarding joint accounts. If one party dies then account reverts to sole name of the survivor. Know this because of my old job looking after deceased accounts. Otherwise it has to go to probate involving solicitors though some people now do it themselves. Though a solicitor would be required regarding any joint property. It would surprise you the number of people who die without a will and with these sums of money one is most definitely required including guardianship if both parents are deceased

OP I wouldn't trust this man as far as I could throw him. His attitude stinks. I'd seriously be thinking about leaving. In the meantime carry on working and tell your 'D'H that the new house purchase isn't happening.

He is gross. I'd get as far away as possible.

This isn’t connected to the finance part but I picked up on the fact that you never get a lie in and he plays football every Saturday all day. When is your lie in or Saturday off?

Imagine having £85,000 in the bank and berating your beloved for £1.50 on a cup of coffee

I don't think a person who would do that knows anything about love.

Good god - he needs to wind his neck in. Agree with MrsTerry - I wouldn’t be using my parents 175k just yet for a joint venture. He needs to stop controlling you financially first and then go from there. FWIW I can’t stand all this nonsense over money like this - it would drive me insane.

If you're putting in 175k + 35k for the new house and he's putting in 85k he should put your current house in joint names. You said his current house was worth around 220k so this would even things up and protect you more financially.

I think you should get pension advice if you are going to continue to stay at home.

Imagine if you split up after 15-20years and you're too young to retire but have spent too long out of the job market to adequately support yourself.

Also lastly cooking, looking after your DS, time for hobbies and lie-ins should be split evenly at the weekends. He doesn't seem to spend much quality time with his DS either.

So after telling him the £175k is off the table he realises he is wrong and you are right?

And will only make all the money joint after you get £175k when he stands to gain more?

He is telling you what you want to hear.

If he is saying his tax free allowance is only £500 he is also saying his annual income is about £122,000 per year. And he’s quibbling over £1.50

Good on you for standing your ground and I think it’s very sensible to see a divorce lawyer, a financial advisor, and go back to work full time, and ask your parents to keep hold of the money. In all honesty if you do buy a place together I’d probably put in exactly the same amount he does and ask parents to keep hold of the balance should you need it in future

Actually, I could be wrong. I’m not sure if benefits in kind reduce personal allowance now.

Have you ever seen copies of his self assessments? I’d be asking for complete transparency where his earnings are concerned

Mishfish she could just spend a few quid and download the company's account online very easy to do.

Mish fish, it's not his tax free allowance on earnings, it's the limit of tax free interest on savings which applies to everyone earning over the 40% tax threshold.

As others have already suggested he could put some savings in his wife's name instead of paying 40% tax on the interest it's earning.

I see! Thanks for clarifying

Excellent idea to seek legal and financial advice!

I'm not in the UK, so may not apply, but here that £175k would become a joint asset the minute it's in your name, unless it's an actual inheritance in which case it's not a joint asset until it's in a joint account. At any rate, I think the best thing would be for your parents to 'hang on' to that money, in their names, until things are the way you want them.

Any of you have an idea of how much it would cost to add my name on to the deeds of our current house. How do you add your spouses name onto the deeds?

He has agreed to put all income going forward into a new joint savings account, less the amount transferred into our existing joint current account (used for bills, food, DS etc), plus £300 per month into my personal account for me to spend or save as I wish. This house would remain in his name and he has said that his longer term intention is for the house to be put in trust for DCs. He doesn't want to or it in trust in the immediate future in case we need to borrow against it in the shorter term.

Having had a chat with mum and dad, they've said that the £175k doesn't come until this house is in both of our names. The only reason DH has given for not putting this house I our joint names now and then into trust a bit later on is the costs and hassle of doing it.

I don't think it will be that much hard work. Hence my question!

Depending on the value if the home the fee (I think) for adding your name to the register (deeds) would be between £40 to £250. Form AP1.

You could in any case register a home rights notice under the Matrimonial Homes Act without your husband's agreement. Form HR1. I think this is exempt from fee.

I'm a solicitor but don't practice property law so very rusty knowledge. Suggest you call the Land Registry for guidance - they are usually very helpful.

To be honest I think your husband is bullshitting you.

You have been together for 8 years, have children, and he doesn't trust you enough to put your name on the deeds.

Says it all really.

Have you said to him that you feel like he is just trying to think of reasons to disagree with all of your suggestions, and they are pretty poor attempts? Eg tax reasons on the savings (even an idiot can see that both your names would have a better tax outcome) and this ‘oh no we will put it into a trust for our children rather than share it with you’.
To give him the benefit of the doubt he might be doing this instinctively. My dh does, although I have no sympathy and call him on it every time and shred his stupid reasons to pieces, and he has gotten better.

Your DH will need to get approval from his mortgage lender, they will do a background check on you and there will be some legal fees. I would guess about £250-£400.

I’m unclear about his reasons for putting the house in trust for the children as well - if this is to avoid inheritance tax then it will make no difference at all while you still live in it, and at the moment it seems unlikely that the two of you would exceed the current IHT threshold anyway.

The Land Registry fee is £40 and all you have to do is fill in a form and pay the fee. Make him do it, OP. He either thinks it's much more complicated than it is or he's fobbing you off.

I hope your parents give that money to you only. But they are absolutely right to withhold until both your names are in the deeds. Your DH is a CF and I'd be back to work toute de suit if I were you - splitting the childcare costs.