AIBU to be shocked

[nickedaname]

My son has just come back from an Army Insight course. He spent a night out on patrol; ran a mile and a half; marched around; took all the shouting and drilling and so on. That was fine.

However, he was a bit surprised at the behaviour of some of the seasoned soldiers who were running the course. In fact he was quite shocked by some of the behaviour and some of the things the men said.

Some of the boys on the course were 16 (like my son) and the men were about twice their age.

I do not want to say too much about the behaviour or the content of what was said, but I was a bit shocked. My son said the men were 'desensitised' and he does not usually use words of more than two syllables.

I don't expect soldiers to act like angels, but I was a bit shocked when my son told me about their behaviour and the topics of discussion. AIBU to feel this was insight into something the army would not be proud of?

My brother went on a similar outing when he was about 14/15.

He isn't easily shocked by any means and in fact often says pretty shocking things himself. But even he was shocked at how racist the soldiers were. Apparently they made horrible racist jokes about people they passed in the street.

Overnightangel.
Bad time with a squaddie or just a SCH?
You sound bitter.

Steely. I'm sorry for your loss. Condolences

Overnightangel you are disgusting. "oh here we go..." WTF

So sorry for your loss Steely x

@startingagain17 how am I disgusting?
Do we have to agree with everything the army do ?

Nope, nor do we have to make stupid generalisations. Services family here, my dad, husband and stepson don't fit your description.

Pointless trying to have a reasonable debate, obviously the “forces” are above discussion , because they’re “defending our country” or other such nonsense

No one's said they are 'above discussion' just that your disparaging comment about a deceased loved one was shitty and generally abhorrent.

How is defending the country nonsense?

It was the way you went 'oh here we go' regarding steely's brother. Nothing to do with your opinion regarding the army. The fact you can't see that is just wow.

I meant the fact that they're trained to kill means they're horrible not nice people What an incredibly ignorant comment. There are just as many 'horrible not nice people' in every other walk of life as there are in the army. You've just proved that with your post.

Steely 💐

Pointless trying to have a reasonable debate, obviously the “forces” are above discussion , because they’re “defending our country” or other such nonsense. Are you suggesting your comment was part of a reasonable debate? And you think it's squaddies who are the obnoxious ones? Shame on you.

Normal behaviour for squaddies, I'm afraid. YABU in being shocked by it, but I agree it's appalling.

I second watching "Full Metal Jacket" if army culture is strange to you. The first half of the movie is US marines doing basic training. (In some ways it's actually the better half, it's surprisingly gripping.)

(I heard a review that said Stanley Kubrick was interested in what happened when machines went wrong, and that basic training was a machine that was supposed to turn boys into killers. The character of Private Pyle illustrates what can go wrong when faulty raw materials are fed to the machine...)

"Full Metal Jacket" is probably in my top 5 of all movies I've ever seen.

Growing up in the middle of troubles it doesn’t surprise me in the slightest. The brutality I witnessed first hand was heinous.
I have no doubt that it still goes on today across the world but it’s not reported.

Their ‘targets’ are dehumanised so that they can kill without hesitation ...much like any other terrorist organisation.

A youtube clip of the marines in "Full Metal Jacket" meeting their drill instructor for the first time.

@Sn0tnose apologies, what I said came across as ignorant and generalising. What I was trying to say was people who can kill someone else daily will be desensitised and are more likely to think that things like rape jokes or whatever OPs son experiences are ok.

This thread is very helpful to me because there are two very distinct sets of opinions. 'Full Metal Jacket' is a great film and I believe some of the Drill Sergeant scenes were taken from experience. However, the film was set in the US Marine Corps in the middle of the Vietnam War and Kubrik said, in an interview later that what went on in Basic Training was 'wrong then and is wrong now'.

In my opinion, my son experienced some language and behaviour that may or may not have been typical of what he would experience in certain contexts in the army or in any all male group (I do not believe any of the Private Grabbing would have occurred in front of females). Yet I think it was inappropriate bearing in mind the age difference between the people engaging in the behaviour and the division of authority. If the other trainees were behaving in this way, it would be more or less typical of their level of maturity. Yet, it is surprising (to me) that men in their thirties (one even older) would behave in a way in front of teenagers (some of whom are still at school).

However, maybe I am being a little more sensitive because there has recently been an inquiry into alleged assaults on 16-17 year old recruits at AFC Harrogate by seasoned NCOs and reading about this has caused me to question whether some of the hardened soldiers have maybe forgotten that the 'raw material' is boys who have not even started Basic Training.

The ah the army operate is generally to encourage bullying and sexist behaviour, and I’m amazed people think otherwise. If you want to survive in the army you have be a twat, or be educated in how to be a twat.

overnightangel

No they really are not. The army trains you to do a job, they don’t care about sex, or religion, or personal preference. All that matters is your ability to do the job.

overnight what's your actual experience/interaction with the forces? You seem to have a lot of anger!

I’m ex-forces and the banter you describe is completely normal for the army. Trust me, it used to be a lot worse.

If he joins the army he will dehumanised at times. That’s part of the process.

This doesn't suprise or shock me but it doesn't make it right . I can understand a darker sense of humour if that's how people cope with things but I do think certain professions such as the army really do bring out the worst in some men in terms of sexist /mysognistic behaviour and talk. Rape jokes are never ok and neither is racism

My uncle is ex army - his stories from the time paint a picture of this type of behaviour , many of them regularly visited prostitutes and had affairs while posted away. Major drinking culture , racism , drunken fights etc . Laddish "pranks" you'd expect from teenagers
Yes a lot of camaraderie and he is still close friends with some of the men he served with .
Obviously this was a good few years ago now but I imagine it's still very Similair . "Lad culture" personified

The Nazi's didn't lose, what do you expect?