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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to be shocked

174 replies

nickedaname · 15/03/2018 21:45

My son has just come back from an Army Insight course. He spent a night out on patrol; ran a mile and a half; marched around; took all the shouting and drilling and so on. That was fine.

However, he was a bit surprised at the behaviour of some of the seasoned soldiers who were running the course. In fact he was quite shocked by some of the behaviour and some of the things the men said.

Some of the boys on the course were 16 (like my son) and the men were about twice their age.

I do not want to say too much about the behaviour or the content of what was said, but I was a bit shocked. My son said the men were 'desensitised' and he does not usually use words of more than two syllables.

I don't expect soldiers to act like angels, but I was a bit shocked when my son told me about their behaviour and the topics of discussion. AIBU to feel this was insight into something the army would not be proud of?

OP posts:
KingIrving · 15/03/2018 22:45

Why are you surprised? What did you except? Bootcamp? You must be very naive about the army.

Snowyrange · 15/03/2018 22:46

Jokes about rape - YANBU and please make sure your son knows that is really really unacceptable.

I would complain as well about the rape jokes.

lougle · 15/03/2018 22:46

"talking about blowing people up as if it's normal.."

Do you not think that's just a coping mechanism? Aren't you thankful that we have people who are willing to go into a dangerous, terrifying, hostile environment, to fight a known enemy for the freedom of those who can't fight for themselves? Despite knowing that the enemy they fight is likely to be just as trained, just as skilled, just as terrified, and just as willing to kill them. We don't live in Fluffy Bunny Land, where we can all live happily ever after, and all the people in the world made friends and shook hands, The End. We live in Perpetual Terror Land, where for every report we hear about of a threat being neutralised, there are likely 5 more that we never find out about.

This is how they cope. They joke about it. They normalise it. They wouldn't be talking about it in 'polite company', outside their barracks, but your DS went in to their barracks.

We tell some awful jokes in the medical world, never directly about anyone, but comments about our work in general that would sound awfully cynical or callous if taken out of context, but in the context that we work in, its the way we deal with frankly traumatising work. If we didn't have these coping strategies, we'd need counselling every time we came across the situations, but they are so frequent, we'd never get our work done, so we deal with it, laugh, and move in to the next awful situation.

pallisers · 15/03/2018 22:47

Maybe the army isn't for him ?

Or maybe it is and it would be great if the army actually attracted guys who were shocked at fucking awful toxic behaviour.

lougle · 15/03/2018 22:50

X-posted with you. No, the leaders won't be doing that. They will be keeping order. Their language may be a bit sweary at times, but rape joke and bomb jokes will not be from them. He will have heard that from rank and file NCOs who were at the barracks, I would have thought, not Cadet leaders.

Some Cadet leaders are also TAs, so they can be really great.

NotAllTimsWearCapes · 15/03/2018 22:51

Thanks lougle.

pallisers · 15/03/2018 22:54

We tell some awful jokes in the medical world, never directly about anyone, but comments about our work in general that would sound awfully cynical or callous if taken out of context, but in the context that we work in, its the way we deal with frankly traumatising work.

Well yeah but if a 16 year old work-experience student came in to do a training exercise with you would you say the same jokes/ comments? Of course you wouldn't.

ColdCottage · 15/03/2018 22:54

I'd feed back to whoever is in charge of the course in writing so it's recorded and officially responded to.

Yes there is banter to take the edge of difficult situations but there should be limits, they don't get a free for all just because of the job. I don't think this is your issue though.

Your issue would be (if it were me) with the language used in front of 16 year old children/young adults and whilst they can show the culture of the career they are representing they should also have some filter/sense of what is and isn't appropriate.

I would not be happy if this was my child.

ohtheholidays · 15/03/2018 23:01

That's pretty common place amongst the Armed Forces I'm afraid OP.

The Army won't be shocked at all,they wouldn't want any of them acting like that in front of anyone important but apart from that believe me they already know what they're troops are like.

I've dated two soldiers(was engaged to one for a few years)my Dad was in the Army and my FIL was in the Marines and my BF DH was in the Marines and it's very much common behaviour amongst the troops.

The one's that have fought in action will have become some what desensitised,what they're facing and what they see is often horrific and things like that will change a person or change the way a person sometimes acts.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 15/03/2018 23:05

They were soldiers, what did you expect? The army doesn't train people to be snowflakes.

Lindy2 · 15/03/2018 23:12

DH was in the army for a while. From what he's told me the behaviour of a lot of people there, at all levels, is pretty disgusting and would be completely unacceptable anywhere else. It was one of the reasons he decided to leave.

Mrsmadevans · 15/03/2018 23:16

It is posturing 'a masking of fear with macho posturing' by the men in front of the youngsters, bloody ridiculous but this is what some men are like.

MargotLovedTom1 · 15/03/2018 23:18

This reminds me of the thread a few days ago about Jim Davidson, where a poster expressed disappointment that squaddies were shown on YouTube pissing themselves laughing at his live show on a base in Cyprus.

AnimalBrain · 15/03/2018 23:21

The only thread on mumsbet where dangerous driving and rape jokes are excused and the rest of us are snowflakes.

Anything but criticize the nations “heros” 🙄

Yanbu OP

Bluelady · 15/03/2018 23:23

Typical squaddie behaviour. It's a different world.

ReanimatedSGB · 15/03/2018 23:24

It's not great. On the one hand, there is the necessary safety valve of crude and dark humour: if you can't cope with that sort of thing then any kind of frontline job (forces, emergency services) is not really a good environment for you. People whose jobs involve death, pain, trauma etc have to develop a degree of resilience, rather than fainting if someone tells them to fuck off. However, the fact that, in such a job, you need to be able to trust your crew/squad/team means that the persistence of racism, sexism and homophobia is a bit of a problem. No line of work should be open only to straight white men or foster a culture that anyone who is not a straight white man is fair game for abuse.

spicerack · 15/03/2018 23:27

they're people who kill other people for a living, of course they're desensitised and I doubt they're very nice people

Lobsterface · 15/03/2018 23:27

I’m horrified to see how many posters say rape jokes are normal in this situation.

If your son was doing an insight day at a lawyers firm, would rape jokes be acceptable?

It’s not ok.

AthenasOwl · 15/03/2018 23:31

I'm really surprised at the amount of people saying rape jokes are normal because of the job these men do.
The police see violence every day is it ok for them to make rape jokes? I'm just genuinely baffled that anyone's job would give them the right to joke about something like that.
Coping mechanism my hole.

mogulfield · 15/03/2018 23:32

Just before the armed forces all gets tarred with the same brush, I was in the RAF for 9 years and never once heard a rape ‘joke’.
People were VERY reluctant to talk about killing, in fact I can count on one hand people that did, and even then it was to process it and never as a joke.
I don’t doubt some army squaddies have sick senses of humour, but it’s not the norm across the forces.
I would also say, the areas of the forces which historically haven’t been open to women tend to be worse... so if any of your DC are interested in the forces I’d recommend looking at trades and branches which are historically mixed.
Also, I’m biased but the RAF comes down on racism/homophobia/sexism like a ton of bricks, I taught the equality and diversity course and it was taken very seriously.

Bluelady · 15/03/2018 23:34

It's not open only to straight, white men. There are loads of soldiers from all over the world. The Army rugby team is almost exclusively Fijian, the white players are a small minority. There are a fair number of openly gay men too, nobody turns a hair any more.

All the banter is part of a quite specific culture, most people who aren't familiar with it would probably be shocked. Fortunately most of us aren't exposed to it.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 15/03/2018 23:45

If your son was doing an insight day at a lawyers firm, would rape jokes be acceptable?

Because being trained to kill in the army is the same as a lawyers cozy desk job?

NotAllTimsWearCapes · 15/03/2018 23:48

What does being trained to kill have to do with rape jokes? Confused do you get a free pass on rape jokes if you can kills someone with your little finger and thumb?

NotAllTimsWearCapes · 15/03/2018 23:48

There’s no reason anyone needs to make a rape joke to help them cope with dealing with death in their job. Seriously.

pallisers · 15/03/2018 23:54

They were soldiers, what did you expect? The army doesn't train people to be snowflakes.

right. If you don't guffaw at rape jokes you are a snowflake. And people wonder where toxic masculinity comes from.

Oh, wait second. not all men are like that. Except the ones who aren't like that and don't like rape jokes can just suck it up, the snowflakes.

Because being trained to kill in the army is the same as a lawyers cozy desk job?

Yeah you stupid snowflake. Don't you know rape jokes are essential if you are being trained to kill.

Are people really thick enough to think the entire army is a Rambo-like killing machine?? No catering corps, no transportation division, no support staff, no admin, no women doing any shit at all (sorry - there are but they tell rape jokes because apparently you can't kill without them).