To genuinely wonder how or why anyone believes in God?

[ChaosNeverRains]

Genuine question.

I was until fairly recently I think probably agnostic rather than anything else, having been brought up in a very church oriented school where the emphasis was all on sin and retribution and the need to worship this higher being and that if you lived every day then it was through God’s will - you get the picture. Until recently though I was prepared to believe that perhaps there was a higher being out there somewhere, and even now I can see that some could believe that there is a higher being out there or that there was at some point.

But what I don’t understand is why people seem to believe that there is a God who looks over them individually when everything points to that not being the case. People talk about the power of prayer when actually no such power exists. The man dying of cancer is no more or less likely to die if you prayed for him than if you didn’t. I know of some very devout Christians who have fallen victim to the most horrific illnesses and where the church have genuinely believed that praying for them means God will heal them, which of course he hasn’t. But when they die those same people are thought to be up there eternally worshipping the lord. Why?

I can see that a belief in God might somehow make people feel comforted that this isn’t the only life we will have, but what I can’t see is that a God who allows the amount of bad and suffering that goes on in the world, even on an individual level should be so worshipped. If a father treated his children in the way that the supposed Heavenly Father treats his, no-one would want anything to do with him. Yet worshippers of a God go to all and any lengths to ensure that they continue to do things in the name of the father and to not upset him for fear of the retribution they will receive.

I’m not one for dismissing belief as believing in the fairies and what-not (with the possible exception of the dinosaur deniers,) but I am becoming more and more curious as to how it is that people can believe in this individual God and actually believe that it is true when there is no evidence to suggest anything of the sort.

PS: I am talking about any and all religion not just one. My thought process being that if there were one God it would be the same God whether you are Christian muslim or Jewish but that the scriptures are defined by humans to make for the individual religions.

Except that some of the churches do believe that the power of prayer is what brings healing. Friend mentioned in my OP whose partner died of cancer recently was part of such a church. She posted regular updates on his condition and was always met with hundreds and hundreds of responses saying things like “praying for his heeling,” “we know that it is only a matter of time before he is cancer free, Praise be to God for it is his will that he be cured,” you get the idea.

Thing is, the guy had been given a terminal prognosis He wasn’t going to survive, although I will say that in the end it was pneumonia that killed him and so he was at least spared the weeks/months of palliative care that his diagnosis would have brought.

But once he died, if she ever posts anything she maybe gets two? Three responses..... All the believers seem to have disappeared, and I can’t help wondering whether that is because they believe his faith obviously wasn’t strong enough and that as such God chose for him to die.

Actually, that's not true. People who know that someone is praying for them actually benefit from it.

Actually, according to "Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer", showed that prayer had no effect on patients who didn't know someone was praying for them, and negative effect on those who did know they were receiving prayers.

And just to add to the growing army of evidence that we are all evolving all the time, here are some pictures of dogs who look like humans: www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/5812793/human-like-dogs-animals-pictures/

Chaos and everyone else: You raise a really interesting points. My take on it for what its worth would be something like this.If you tried to explain religious belief to Dr Spock you can probably imagine how the conversation would go. Scientific rationalism makes nonsense of religious belief. But it is possible for the individual to operate on more than one level. I know that I can be both rational and spiritual in different contexts and am well aware of the contradictions. Belief is not really a rational thing and it can change and fluctuate. I mostly don't have a belief but occasionally I do. Bit like a poor radio signal that is mostly absent. But when the signal comes through it is real to me and it does not matter too much to me if you were to say that I was being irrational. Carl Jung once said that he knew that there was a god or words to that effect. I'm pretty sure he did not mean this too literally; that is to say, I believe he was referring to something inside the human psyche rather than something external which can be validated by the bible or rendered invalid by science.

I don't understand it either, OP.

I have recently been following the story of a blogger whose three-year-old son, her only child, has been diagnosed with an aggressive brain tumour which will (not might - will) kill him within a few months. I cannot conceive of a universe in which this can happen and which also contains a loving, benevolent God. It simply makes no sense, and none of the excuses (free will, God's mysterious 'plan', etc) come close to explaining it.

The world simply doesn't behave as if it is controlled by an all-powerful, loving, benevolent force. People just want to believe it is because it's more comforting to believe someone is in control than the truth, which is that no one is.

We don't KNOW we evolved. That is why it is called the theory of evolution.

When people say they believe un evolution it is also helpful for them to clarify wether they mean macro or micro evolution.

Evolution is, to me, the biggest fairy story there is.

If the standard evolutionary model is true we should expect to find the earth teeming with evidence of intermediate life forms but it is not.

Jeremy Rifkin wrote: 'What the (fossil) record shows is nearly a century of fudging and finagling by scientists to conform with Darwin's notions, all to no avail. Today the millions of fossils stand as very visible, ever present reminders of the paltriness of the arguments and the overall shabbiness of the theory that marches under the banner of evolution.'

Atheism is the absence of faith.

It's the belief that no gods exist.

So if you're looking at it from a theist perspective being the norm, then yes, one could say it's an absence of the belief in god.

You need to be brainwashed as a child to believe in religion. If it was illegal to mention it until someone is 18, religion would die out pretty quick.

“Atheism is the absence of faith“

No it’s not, it’s an absence of the belief in god/s.

Faith is a completely different thing, science is essentially a belief system relying on faith for most people.

Yes, I have to say, even though I am a devout atheist, I can see holes in the evolution argument. I don't understand why they haven't found fossils of earlier humans. Surely there would be some? I know the one they had was dismissed as being a normal human with a back problem. Everyone thought we walked like apes but that's been disproved now.

Because it provides them with comfort, strength, peace, sense of belonging and probably a lot more. You would need to speak but more importantly listen to believers to find out what it means to them.

Wrt organised religion, again it depends on what the individual gets out of it. Not all members of a religion believe in God.

Atheism is the absence of faith

Rubbish. I am an atheist, I have faith, but faith in kindness, humanity, etc. Not in ridiculous made-up stories.

Actually, according to "Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer", showed that prayer had no effect on patients who didn't know someone was praying for them, and negative effect on those who did know they were receiving prayers.

Other studies say otherwise.

It doesn't make any sense that someone who (crucially) believes in the power of prayer wouldn't benefit from it.

There was a study not too long ago testing the power of the placebo effect - this showed that people who receive a placebo and are told they are receiving a placebo show improvement over the control group.

No one should suggest that prayer is a substitute for medical care (that's probably illegal, anyway) but why deny believers this comfort?

To answer the original question, I believe in God because I believe that my life is better with Him in it.

Jesus is quoted as saying "I come that they may have life, and have it abundantly"

That doesn't mean I don't have lots of questions and doubts - everyone who believes (and those who don't!) have to wrestle with the question of why bad things happen to good people, and there are no easy answers.

And anyone who thinks believers don't get angry with God, or despair, hasn't read the Psalms! But we believe He (or She, if you prefer) is big enough to take it.

You need to be brainwashed as a child to believe in religion.

That is just not true, are you honestly saying that only people who have been raised with a faith continue to have a faith?

Both my parents are athiest, with no interest in faith or religious actibity.

I have had a strong faith for over 40 year - absolutely my own choice.

I think people often use 'atheist' as shorthand for their faith in scientific explanations for all phenomena and assume that because they believe they're right, there's no need to explain what they mean.

They still have a faith that god doesn't exist and that science is the truth, though.

Not that I'm saying all atheists have faith in science above all, it's just that most of the evangelical atheists I know use the argument 'because science'.

I think - and I'm talking now as someone whose work includes a study of Christian theology, not from my own agnostic quasi-faith - that it is important to distinguish between what lots of people believe, and what churches actually teach. Lots of people might believe that prayer will heal as long as it's done 'right', but very few trained theologians would agree with that. Similarly, lots of people believe ideas they like (eg that in the afterlife they'll be hanging out with all their dead relatives) despite the fact that they're explicitly non-biblical. Obviously you could say that that's because churches either do a bad job of teaching or because they actively don't want to disabuse people of concepts they find comforting, but taking a random person's view on their religion and then picking holes in the logic of it is like saying that quantum mechanics can't possibly be right because a kid doing GCSE physics gave an explanation of it that made no sense.

Can't believe someone has trotted out the 'evolution is just a theory' argument.

Gravity is also a theory. Does anyone want to jump of a building to test whether it's been 'proven'?

Very good question, and one I too have often pondered. But I stopped pondering this some years ago now. When I came to realise that just putting my faith in something beyond the realms of reality as we know it, and understand it, actually gave me more comfort and support, than anything else ever had. I have prayed through awful times and good times, have prayed for strength when I've felt weak and low and lost in life, and have prayed for a better heart when I've been verging on being bitter and unforgiving. And I don't know why or how, but somehow it has always helped. I try and explain this to my 18yr old daughter, as she is also quite agnostic, and thinks it is all a sign of madness....

It's called the theory of evolution because it is a theory in scientific terms. That is, something fully evidenced to support it.

Ragwort - just out of interest, how did you pick which religion to follow and whichever god to believe in?

I'm an atheist, but I have no issue with others believing in God, or whomever they choose!

I spent years and years battling my catholic upbringing and raging against what I saw as brainwashing and indoctrination. Tbh I can't be arsed to feel like that now. I just say live and let live. I feel the same way about people that believe in ghosts, or think 9/11 was an inside job. I disagree but let them think what they like.

I believe in God, attend church (once Catholic, once sort of Anglican/Baptist) twice a week, sometimes three times a week (Quaker), and pray every day. I’ll explain my beliefs.

I don’t take the bible literally, I know the world wasn’t created in 7 days. But I do believe that God had a part in the formation of the earth, that he hears our prayers, and I do believe in miracles - I know personally of two events I consider miracles and have heard of multiple more.

My parents and best friend died when I was 8. I believe everything happens for a reason, and I don’t understand it but it’s all part of God’s plan and it will all make sense in the end. I find the idea that suffering is totally random actually more terrifying and sickening, so maybe God is just a comfort blanket to me. But I do still have a strong belief in God’s existence - there is nothing to prove that he doesn’t, just as there’s nothing to prove that he does.

My parents were agnostic and we never went to church growing up. I found God and began to believe when I was around 15 - I was on the beach sobbing, I’d just had a panic attack, and I felt something in me and had the uncontrollable urge to pray. It’s hard to explain, but I felt God’s presence and felt him listening to my prayers.

I don’t ever discuss my religion with atheists in real life because I find the atheists I’ve previously interacted with on the matter get quite frustrated at my not bending to their viewpoint. I’ve probably just had conversations with the wrong people but it’s put me off! I would never try to ‘convert’ someone to my religion and I don’t force my children to come to church - one (14) comes both times a week out of choice and has from the age of 9, but didn’t before then, one (12) started coming once a week about six months ago and used to come when she was very little because I was a single mum, my 5yo and 2yo DDs come once a week but only because their friends come and it’s fun 18yo DS has come sporadically and considers himself agnostic.

I don’t have a strong belief in resurrection, I don’t know what happens after we die and I don’t care. But I believe God is watching over us while we live. I understand that not everyone feels that way, but those are my beliefs.

It would be lovely to have faith. Sadly instinctively I just know religion is entirely made up to fulfil a need people have and to alleviate fear of death. Definitely like going to church though! And many religious people do a lot of good in poor communities.