To genuinely wonder how or why anyone believes in God?

[ChaosNeverRains]

Genuine question.

I was until fairly recently I think probably agnostic rather than anything else, having been brought up in a very church oriented school where the emphasis was all on sin and retribution and the need to worship this higher being and that if you lived every day then it was through God’s will - you get the picture. Until recently though I was prepared to believe that perhaps there was a higher being out there somewhere, and even now I can see that some could believe that there is a higher being out there or that there was at some point.

But what I don’t understand is why people seem to believe that there is a God who looks over them individually when everything points to that not being the case. People talk about the power of prayer when actually no such power exists. The man dying of cancer is no more or less likely to die if you prayed for him than if you didn’t. I know of some very devout Christians who have fallen victim to the most horrific illnesses and where the church have genuinely believed that praying for them means God will heal them, which of course he hasn’t. But when they die those same people are thought to be up there eternally worshipping the lord. Why?

I can see that a belief in God might somehow make people feel comforted that this isn’t the only life we will have, but what I can’t see is that a God who allows the amount of bad and suffering that goes on in the world, even on an individual level should be so worshipped. If a father treated his children in the way that the supposed Heavenly Father treats his, no-one would want anything to do with him. Yet worshippers of a God go to all and any lengths to ensure that they continue to do things in the name of the father and to not upset him for fear of the retribution they will receive.

I’m not one for dismissing belief as believing in the fairies and what-not (with the possible exception of the dinosaur deniers,) but I am becoming more and more curious as to how it is that people can believe in this individual God and actually believe that it is true when there is no evidence to suggest anything of the sort.

PS: I am talking about any and all religion not just one. My thought process being that if there were one God it would be the same God whether you are Christian muslim or Jewish but that the scriptures are defined by humans to make for the individual religions.

In terms of early human civilization- religion and gods made sense as people didnt know anything about the world or universe they lived in.

But in the 21st century, as a race we have grown up and understand so much more that god and religion seems superfluous and silly now. We dont need it to know about our planet, where we came from or morality.

Atheism is a very popular and fashionable religion at the moment. In a lot of ways there are many more ‘blindly following’ atheists because of this.
I imagine it is a quite similar to when Christianity was the religion of choice back in the day, and people blindly followed all of its rituals and traditions.
It’s easiest to go with the flow.

You don’t actually have any evidence to back up the assertions that you make, it may seem that way but really there is no evidence to support either the existence or the non ectostencr of god. You have also forgotten all the people who believe in a non-interventionist god (there are non-abrahamic religions out there you know).

I answer to your original question. Have you ever read/seen Life of Pi? There is no reason not to believe. It doesn’t harm me if god exists, god’s existence is in no way threatening to me or my more dearly held beliefs. It’s nice to think there may be someone out there in the event that I find myself with no one else. I know I may be wrong. I would never presume to tell other people what to believe eve in this respect (i’m Not arrogant in that way). But it adds a bit more richness to my life. Praying, thinking about what god must think/in what way and to what extent a god exists and what not is just another way for fill my time.

araiwa - we may not need it, but some of us choose it, and that should be ok.

I find it hard to keep believing but it just helps me feel like the world is a better place. Praying makes me feel like I have a very small amount of control over situations I don't have any control over.

I know what people think, but it doesn't sway me. Even if my beliefs turn out to be false (which I hope they aren't) my happiness is real. I'm not preaching and I'm not hurting anyone else, I don't expect anyone else to agree with me. But I'm fine with that!

People seem to get very angry with me sometimes because there is no proof, but really, what harm am I doing in believing in god? None that I can see!

HTH x

If you look back a lot of 'religions' prayed for things to with Mother Nature - weather for crops, love for emotions, etc. because they didn't understand (the science of) them.
As we have come to understand the world around us the concepts of God become less needed.

Also, let's not forget that this 'all loving' God committed genocide on at least one occasion (Noah's Ark) and created the devil!

For me, belief in a religion is impossible because it's so illogical. There are so many inconsistencies in the written word. And you can't argue against belief/faith with logic by definition.

I think faith brings comfort to many, and who am I to tell them they are wrong?

But. I think we are conditioned to be religious, or at least, to want to follow a Big Leader. Humans are pack animals when you go far enough back, we are too weak to hunt alone so we hunt together. Hunting animals are more effective if they follow one, strong leader who directs the hunt.
When we no longer needed to live like that, we still needed and wanted to follow someone telling us what to do. So we invented priests and gurus and the like and followed them instead. And they needed to rationalise their position, so said they were following instructions from a Bigger Leader in the sky.

Like I said, no axe to grind and I don't believe but don't mind if others do, and it brings comfort to many. But my brain tells me it's just conditioning.

People shouldn’t need to declare themselves as x or y religion and go to worship to prove it,

No-one needs to to declare themselves or worship, though. It's their personal choice.

Why does God allow suffering, is a very common, old question and obviously has been answered from various forms of Christianity (with their sl different views) so many times over such a long time. Look up some eloquent writing on the subject if you have never heard this before.

I believe in God, just like I believe I am alive (currently) and I believe I can communicate with people, I believe I am typing this on the computer. I don't consantly have to seek proof/affirmation that I am alive. I just know I am, it has been made clear to me (over a period of time) not just a once off realization (although that would work too) then I carry on with my life! The same with my belief in God, I know there is a God.

PS the questions you have are part of what drove me to Christianity, I'm glad I am here.

Atheism is a very popular and fashionable religion at the moment. In a lot of ways there are many more ‘blindly following’ atheists because of this...It’s easiest to go with the flow

It’s not a religion.

I’m not going with any ‘flow’

I don’t believe in any god and I don’t understand how people do, but as long as they keep their beliefs to themselves I leave them to it. But start needling me and I’ll be forthright in my opinion.

The people of faith on this thread are proving, yet again, why their worldview is ridiculous enough to make intelligent people wonder how the hell they could believe such childish tripe.

Atheism is a fashionable religon at the moment Please, find a dictionary and look up the words “atheism” and “religion” and then take a moment to think about what an exceptionally dumb comment this is.

You seem to have been raised with a very negative view of God as some sort of aggressive bully waiting to punish you for sins Have you actually read the Bible?

Atheism is a very popular and fashionable religion at the moment. In a lot of ways there are many more ‘blindly following’ atheists because of this.

I agree. atheism relies on faith just as much as any other religion.

Why does God allow suffering is a very common, old question Indeed it is and, in spite of 2000 years of trying to answer it, no sensible answer has ever been produced.

“Free will” is the usual attempt, which doesn’t work and never has.

Atheism relies on faith

Atheism is the absence of faith. 🙄

Bad things happening can do very different things to people's faith - it can really shake it, but it can also strengthen it.

I'm an agnostic married to a practising-but-I-wouldn't-say-terribly-devout Anglican. He goes to church most weeks, I go with him maybe one time in two, but very much think of it as his thing I support him in, not for me.

Last year I had three miscarriages - all early, so not really up there in the world's great tragedies, but we were very shaken and sad, particularly after the third one when we both began to very much doubt that we could have children at all. He didn't go to church for a couple of months after it and just said he was 'angry with God'. I accepted this and tried to support him. I, however, found that a funny thing happened - I started praying, having never in my life prayed before. Not because I thought it would fix the problem - it is absolutely clear that whatever prayer is, it's not a cosmic baby ordering system! - but because it felt right. About nine months on my husband has recovered his faith, but I still don't know where I stand with mine - I would never describe myself as a Christian to others (I'm not even baptised) but I now feel something I didn't use to. Maybe it's faith. Of course I know rationally that wanting to pray then was a psychological search for (perhaps meaningless) comfort at a time where I was feeling really low. But to me I guess it felt like something more significant, and I suppose that's all faith can be - a feeling.

I wouldn't try and take away anyone's religion or comfort but it does all seem a bit silly especially as it causes so much division and trouble in the world

It's obvious where the idea of heaven (pretty sky) and hell (lava, sulphur) came from and commandments etc trying to keep people in line, but now we have science and police forces. Time to move on.

It all very much depends on what you think god is. If it is a big old hairy man in the clouds then you may question. If its something more all encompassing and difficult to define, it exists because you feel it or think it does

I'm not sure they do.

I had some religious people come round this morning. They barely knocked, like they didn't want to be heard, I just happened to be standing near the door.

They looked embarrassed. They timidly offered me a leaflet but didn't look or sound convincing.

Was all a bit cringe.

But the thing is that the bible does teach about retribution. About God testing his children’s faith in him (abraham anyone?) and it also talks about the need for people to spread the word, so worship and the need to “preach” if you will call it that, is part and parcel of “organised” religion.

It seems very evident that the majority of people on this thread follow a faith that is based more on a bigger picture. But the world view is for worship, without the churches, the mosques etc how long would faith be sustainable?

And free will is a cop out imo. If God isn’t responsible for the bad, then he ain’t responsible for the good either, yet how many people thank God when good things happen? I could go with the free will line of thinking if that meant that once you were put on this earth God had nothing more to do with anything that you do, but let’s be honest, people of faith don’t believe that. They do believe that you have free will to choose God or not, but that when good things happen those are through the power of God, and when bad things happen that’s the devil or free will. And they also believe that if you do not accept God then you cannot have eternal life.

You can’t have it both ways though. If I am a good person then I am through free will, not because God made me that way - if it follows that I do bad things through free will and God isn’t responsible for those.

I dont give a fuck what people believe in.

But as soon as they start using their god as some sort of moral authority over others and telling others what they should or shouldnt be doing, then they have invited me to ridicule their bullshit

One of the key elements of faith (Christian faith anyway) is that it is a belief without proof. The Christian church also says that God made us with free will, so we can choose to do the right thing or the wrong thing (which explains why God doesn't stop people doing bad things to other people, but not why illnesses etc happen). I'm sure my devout christian friends would say that God has a bigger plan that we cannot begin to comprehend and so the fact that bad things happen to good people does not mean that God doesn't exist or is not good. They would say that praying for someone does not mean that God will cure them, but that God will help them in other ways (eg making them feel at peace/giving them inner strength etc).

Personally, I find it really difficult to see things this way (although I suspect I would be a calmer and happier person if I did). However, I know many people who do and who find their religion a huge comfort, especially when faced with problems outside their control (illness/bereavement etc) so I would not try to stop them believing.

I used to get great comfort from going to church each week, but then I had two friends (not particularly close friends ) who were my age and with young children who died from cancer - my grandmother was becoming more frail with senile dementia, didn't enjoy life at all, was a drain on everyone and everything around her yet she carried on living. I was very angry with 'God' for this perceived injustice - how could he let an old person -with no quality of life and who brought no good to anyone - live whilst two young parents had each been taken from their two young boys and two families devastated. I still dont understand it.
My GM was a devout Christian - claimed God spoke to her when she was at her lowest ebb, fully believed in the life hereafter etc etc yet seemed terrified of dying. Her husband died 15 years before plus her eldest son so if her belief was true then why weren't they calling her, taking her? Her 'final hours' took a week. It was horrible.
By contrast, my other GM who definitely didn't believe in God, died whilst watching TV one evening. Totally unexpected but very peaceful! Surely if she would have had the more stressful death if the Church is to be believed?
I believe that going to Church brings great comfort to many people, in the same way that going to a watch a sporting team, or going to a hobby club brings comfort to many people and that none should be castigated or made to feel odd. Comfort is such a personal thing - so long as no one is being forced to join whats the harm?

The vast majority of church attendees are under a delusion.

The delusion that, if someone needs healing we should go to God and ask him to heal them.

This is NOT what the New Testament teaches. We are no longer under the law.
We (spirit filled christians) are instructed to speak with authority given to us by Jesus to the 'mountain' ie. Sickness etc. With faith in God's word NOT faith in our ability/how deserving we are.

Jesus was the full likeness of God the father on earth and he healed ALL who came to him.

God does NOT get 'glory' from his children suffering! What a crazy idea to promote.

For those Christians who have been taught these erroneous ideas I recommend you read, 'You've already got it so quit trying to get it' by Andrew Wommack.

Oh and the other thing I heard which kind of made sense when I asked a vicar about why God allows 'his children' to fight and do such damage to each other he said "as a parent, do you stop your children trying things out or do you let them and pick them up when they make a mistake? Its only by making mistakes that we learn. And when we are talking about millions of people rather than one or two children, the mistakes becoming bigger ie World Wars. God shows us the way if we look for it"

OK I was with him up til the last bit

But we know that we evolved, so why do people believe in this nonsense? As Stephen Hawkin who died yesterday said, "it's fairy stories".