To genuinely wonder how or why anyone believes in God?

[ChaosNeverRains]

Genuine question.

I was until fairly recently I think probably agnostic rather than anything else, having been brought up in a very church oriented school where the emphasis was all on sin and retribution and the need to worship this higher being and that if you lived every day then it was through God’s will - you get the picture. Until recently though I was prepared to believe that perhaps there was a higher being out there somewhere, and even now I can see that some could believe that there is a higher being out there or that there was at some point.

But what I don’t understand is why people seem to believe that there is a God who looks over them individually when everything points to that not being the case. People talk about the power of prayer when actually no such power exists. The man dying of cancer is no more or less likely to die if you prayed for him than if you didn’t. I know of some very devout Christians who have fallen victim to the most horrific illnesses and where the church have genuinely believed that praying for them means God will heal them, which of course he hasn’t. But when they die those same people are thought to be up there eternally worshipping the lord. Why?

I can see that a belief in God might somehow make people feel comforted that this isn’t the only life we will have, but what I can’t see is that a God who allows the amount of bad and suffering that goes on in the world, even on an individual level should be so worshipped. If a father treated his children in the way that the supposed Heavenly Father treats his, no-one would want anything to do with him. Yet worshippers of a God go to all and any lengths to ensure that they continue to do things in the name of the father and to not upset him for fear of the retribution they will receive.

I’m not one for dismissing belief as believing in the fairies and what-not (with the possible exception of the dinosaur deniers,) but I am becoming more and more curious as to how it is that people can believe in this individual God and actually believe that it is true when there is no evidence to suggest anything of the sort.

PS: I am talking about any and all religion not just one. My thought process being that if there were one God it would be the same God whether you are Christian muslim or Jewish but that the scriptures are defined by humans to make for the individual religions.

Bertrandrussell you seem to have a low opinion of me, probably because you don't like what i have to say. If you could just accept that not everyone has the same views as you and respect that there'd be no need for all this bickering. The fact that i believe in God shouldn't bother you in the slightest, not just you but others too, but for reasons unknown atheists are notoriously argumentative. It really doesn't bother me that you don't believe in God, i really don't understand why it bothers you that some do.

I can understand people who might try to force their religion on you would be annoying, but i'm not one of those, neither am i responsible for the "Christian privilege" in the UK that bothers you. So on a personal level there shouldn't be the need for the slight hostility you show towards me.

I think it’s less about your beliefs and I’ve had a very nice conversation with missy and other posters.
It’s your inability to answer any question and then act like a petulant child.

ipad working again, bertrandrussell there is no ONE particularly example, just the bias in general. But if i wanted to go right through the thread i could easily pick out several.

"But if i wanted to go right through the thread i could easily pick out several."

But you're not going to?

You haven't asked me 20 questions at all greenyoga and please don't try and put me down by implying you've had great chats with others but that i'm stupid. How dare you. I've made a few points that have obviously hit a nerve, that's what's bothering you.

bertrandrussell how childish to imply i'm not going to means there won't be any, what when you've just totally ignored my post about your hostility. If i've got time tomorrow i will, because you can't be,bothered obviously.

Anything to say about your unreasonable hostility bertrand or will you do your usual ignoring of the things you can't answer.

I genuinely have but like with Bertrand you won’t actually go and look you’ll just project into us. It’s you who is childish and you who ignores things.

You’ve not made any points! I’ve had nice conversations with others, you won’t engage in conversation because you don’t answer any questions and just attack everyone

I'm not hostile. I am, I accept, irritated by Christians who come on threads like this, which are obviously intended to be for discussion and debate and complain about anything negative said about their faith. And who refuse to address real issues like Christian privilege. And who say things like "You wouldn't say things like that about other faiths" but refuse to say what sort of thing they mean ............

No i do not attack at all, i defend myself, there's a massive difference, and please tell me the things i've ignored. What "nice conversations" have you had, i haven't really seen any.

Just now with missy who eloquently explained her beliefs and answered my questions. Others who have also explained their beliefs and answered questions further back.
You’ve nothing to defend, you either ignore people or are hostile when they call you out on your ridiculousness.

I am, I accept, irritated by Christians who come on threads like this, which are obviously intended to be for discussion and debate and complain about anything negative said about their faith.

I don’t mind if you criticise my faith. It’s my faith, not yours. You have every right to criticise it and say why you don’t believe in it. After all, if I don’t defend your right not to have the same faith as me (or none) how can I defend my right to have a different faith to other people?

BertrandRussel, Im not sure why you are so obsessed with Christian privilege and feel so hard done by, When it doesn't bother anyone else. Most people just accept that the UK was and still is to some extent a Christian country. The majority of the population are happy with this regardless of faith or lack of faith.

And, Logicalmum, you made a categorical statement that this thread would have been deleted if done comments had been made about non Christian faiths but are refusing g to give examples. That's irritating too.

You came on a thread which was asking why people believed in God. You don't, so you came on purely to have a go at those who do. You asked me to explain what i meant. You knew damn well what i meant ant, i certainly wasn't shirking the issue. Comments about how people didn't like Christianity,.....in other words, the bulk of the posts. What the heck did you think i meant. That other religions wouldn't get the same level of criticism without getting pulled. Course it wouldn't....It was quite clear what i was saying.but you pretended you didn't know.

bertrandrussell examples of WHAT, i've explained what countless times.

Can't you understand. A thread that was very anti in its stance towards a particular religion, would get pulled. I'm not talking about individual posts, but the thread on the whole. Apart from this one obviously.

Its very interesting that the more humanity studies religion the more everyone disagrees on what it is. But the more humanity studies science the more everyone agrees on what it means. Surly that overwhelming reality would make most people come to a conclusion on this question.

There are said to be 4200 religions in the world.

4199 cant be right for sure

@Bertrand Russell (chuckling addressing the moniker of famous atheist)

You missed out on the third point he raises - the moral argument. (Note to others this isn’t saying those who don’t believe in God can’t be moral) which I am sure you are familiar with. There are degrees of what is considered to be moral in many things but there are a few things across most cultures humans view as wrong. Atheists usually make the claim evolution provided a social framework as groups worked out it is better to cooperate. However, why should we expect anyone to abide them? And if the answer is because we a build a better society that way, by using the word better you have to assume there is an objective standard being used to be measured by. Where does that objective standard come from?

Look at any theocracy, where their laws are set by religious dictat. None of those countries are places i would want to live and i doubt anyone on mn would want to either.

If the uk morality and law were set by christianity it would be awful- genocide, slavery, misogyny, anti lgbt, killing nonvirgins who arent married etc etc

Morality is set by the people in society through rational conversations and is much better than religious morality. Religious morality has been left in the dust.

It is more moral to help your neighbour because you know its a nice thing to do than because you fear punishment if you dont

"Where does that objective standard come from". Here we go again with the morality comes from god nonsense. Secular morality is far superior as it is based on rational ideas that we can all agree on, life is better than death, health better than illness, freedom from suffering is better than pain. Secular morality can make moral judgements where as religious morality can't as it is viewed as a dictate from above. If god arbitrarily decides that murder is moral, then it would be so, based on his being the absolute standard of morality. In the same way god clearly approves of slavery and child sacrifice.

"If the uk morality and law were set by christianity it would be awful- genocide, slavery, misogyny, anti lgbt, killing nonvirgins who arent married etc etc"
The laws have been largely influenced by Christianity and that clearly isn't the case.

the same way god clearly approves of slavery and child sacrifice
God did not approve of child sacrifice. Are you referring to Isaac? What's your source?....Judaism stopped people from sacrificing children to gods like molech at a time when it was commonly practiced by pagan religions. Child sacrifice was clearly condemned in the bible.