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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To genuinely wonder how or why anyone believes in God?

999 replies

ChaosNeverRains · 15/03/2018 10:13

Genuine question.

I was until fairly recently I think probably agnostic rather than anything else, having been brought up in a very church oriented school where the emphasis was all on sin and retribution and the need to worship this higher being and that if you lived every day then it was through God’s will - you get the picture. Until recently though I was prepared to believe that perhaps there was a higher being out there somewhere, and even now I can see that some could believe that there is a higher being out there or that there was at some point.

But what I don’t understand is why people seem to believe that there is a God who looks over them individually when everything points to that not being the case. People talk about the power of prayer when actually no such power exists. The man dying of cancer is no more or less likely to die if you prayed for him than if you didn’t. I know of some very devout Christians who have fallen victim to the most horrific illnesses and where the church have genuinely believed that praying for them means God will heal them, which of course he hasn’t. But when they die those same people are thought to be up there eternally worshipping the lord. Why?

I can see that a belief in God might somehow make people feel comforted that this isn’t the only life we will have, but what I can’t see is that a God who allows the amount of bad and suffering that goes on in the world, even on an individual level should be so worshipped. If a father treated his children in the way that the supposed Heavenly Father treats his, no-one would want anything to do with him. Yet worshippers of a God go to all and any lengths to ensure that they continue to do things in the name of the father and to not upset him for fear of the retribution they will receive.

I’m not one for dismissing belief as believing in the fairies and what-not (with the possible exception of the dinosaur deniers,) but I am becoming more and more curious as to how it is that people can believe in this individual God and actually believe that it is true when there is no evidence to suggest anything of the sort.

PS: I am talking about any and all religion not just one. My thought process being that if there were one God it would be the same God whether you are Christian muslim or Jewish but that the scriptures are defined by humans to make for the individual religions.

OP posts:
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BertrandRussell · 20/03/2018 22:20

I notice, by the way, that logicalmum has done her usual jump in, tell everyone they are vile Christian badgers and jump out again.

Missymoo100 · 20/03/2018 22:21

So you think society was better when practically everyone was a Christian - yes, I think we're living in the post Christian afterglow and wading downhill.
and children were sent to work down the mines?
I don't see how this is related.

Greenyogagirl · 20/03/2018 22:22

Poor illogical mum can’t answer questions so calls us names and then sods off lol

BertrandRussell · 20/03/2018 22:22

Christian bashers. Christian badgers are something else. Although they do have rather a pious look to them......

TheBrilliantMistake · 20/03/2018 22:22

But we also see priests abusing, of senior church officials covering things up, American preachers obsessed with finances. We read of the formation of the Church of England because Henry fancied a new wife.
We read of a quite recent Pope condemning contraception. We also have churches still struggling with homosexuality and women in the church.
30 years ago, homosexuality was wrong. Now it's not quite so wrong. Did God get with the times, or did the Church decide it was losing favour and elected to start reinterpreting God's message?

God's own society has symptoms of its own does it not?

Greenyogagirl · 20/03/2018 22:23

It’s related because when everyone was god fearing (fearing because if he exists he’s bloody awful) life was hell for the majority

Missymoo100 · 20/03/2018 22:26

Thebrilliant-
I agree with what you said about the church. I do go to church but I recognise what you say.
If you did want to find god, then don't be put off by the church. Start elsewhere.

Greenyogagirl · 20/03/2018 22:26

Why are there so many different factions of what is essentially the same religion? The first testament wasn’t nice so someone wrote the second testament. Henry viii wanted a divorce so made c of e. Then the catholics, Methodist, Latter Day Saints etc and Jesus himself was Jewish! Was his religion not good enough?!

Bundlesmads · 20/03/2018 22:26

I wonder if anybody watched the report on ITV News tonight about Christian persecution in China? My child goes to school with a lot of Iraqi Christians who have been dreadfully persecuted.

Missymoo100 · 20/03/2018 22:31

Green yoga-
The New Testament follows on from
Old Testament, Jesus quoted it and fulfilled prophecy.
Martin Luther made first changes to church in the reformation-
Catholics following apoloistic teachings passed down,- prima scripta
The reformed Christian's stated bible alone was all that's needed- solar scripta
Jesus warned their would be divisions and false teachings.

BertrandRussell · 20/03/2018 22:32

“wonder if anybody watched the report on ITV News tonight about Christian persecution in China? My child goes to school with a lot of Iraqi Christians who have been dreadfully persecuted.”

Yes, religious persecution is a very real and dreadful thing. Which is why it is very irritating when Christians in the UK get all miffed if someone on a Mumsnet thread is a bit disobliging about their faith.

Missymoo100 · 20/03/2018 22:34

Jesus was Jewish- but Judaism is the backbone of Christianity- they are the same religion, but Judaism rejects Christ as the messiah,

Missymoo100 · 20/03/2018 22:36

Therefore without Jesus the New Testament is not applicable- but the Old Testament and Jewish Torah are one and the same

Greenyogagirl · 20/03/2018 22:36

So the same religion but different names and all believe in god and Jesus but yours is real and the rest are false teachings?

Bundlesmads · 20/03/2018 22:39

Yes, religious persecution is a very real and dreadful thing. Which is why it is very irritating when Christians in the UK get all miffed if someone on a Mumsnet thread is a bit disobliging about their faith

I am a Christian. I am a Protestant and I passionately believe in the right of others to criticise my faith. I believe in the right to believe in any God or Gods you like or none. I believe blasphemy is nonsense because you cannot blaspheme a faith you do not believe in.

But I’d like other people to let me believe what I want in peace as long as my religious beliefs aren’t imposed on them in any way (abortion etc).

logicalmum · 20/03/2018 22:40

greenyoga i haven't "sodded off" at all, i've been struggling to post anything because my ipads playing up. Calling who names?, and i'll answer any question you like (can't see the point really, because everything i say gets misconstrued) but ask me what you like. i can't scroll up so you'll have to remind me of your "questions", whatever they were.

Bundlesmads · 20/03/2018 22:41

I think that’s my fundamental belief. You can believe what you like but never, ever attempt to impose it on others.

Missymoo100 · 20/03/2018 22:42

Ok so Judaism, Christianity and Islam- all same god... abrahamic god.
Judaism- same as Christianity upto arrival of Jesus. They don't believe Jesus was messiah. They do believe he existed. There is record of Jesus execution in the talmund, Sanhedrin record- states sorcery and leading the people astray were reason he was executed.
Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet but not the son of god. God is one.
Christians- believe god became manifested in the flesh. The father, son and spirit are one.

I believe Christianity to be true because I have researched it and find the evidence compelling.

logicalmum · 20/03/2018 22:44

That's to bertrandrussell too.

Missymoo100 · 20/03/2018 22:46

Bundles- il have to try and watch the itv programme. It's good it has been covered. Very little coverage on the issue to say how bad it is.

Greenyogagirl · 20/03/2018 22:50

Remind you of the 20 or so questions I asked you previously just for you to ignore them call me names and tell me to leave you alone. I’ll pass thanks.

Greenyogagirl · 20/03/2018 22:51

Bundles I respect that completely and agree!

Greenyogagirl · 20/03/2018 22:51

Thank you for answering missy, that’s really interesting

BertrandRussell · 20/03/2018 22:52

Logicalmum- I asked you for an example of the sort of thing said about Christians that would have got the thread pulled if said about any other faith.

Greenyogagirl · 20/03/2018 22:56

Don’t be a badger Bertrand Grin

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