To genuinely wonder how or why anyone believes in God?

[ChaosNeverRains]

Genuine question.

I was until fairly recently I think probably agnostic rather than anything else, having been brought up in a very church oriented school where the emphasis was all on sin and retribution and the need to worship this higher being and that if you lived every day then it was through God’s will - you get the picture. Until recently though I was prepared to believe that perhaps there was a higher being out there somewhere, and even now I can see that some could believe that there is a higher being out there or that there was at some point.

But what I don’t understand is why people seem to believe that there is a God who looks over them individually when everything points to that not being the case. People talk about the power of prayer when actually no such power exists. The man dying of cancer is no more or less likely to die if you prayed for him than if you didn’t. I know of some very devout Christians who have fallen victim to the most horrific illnesses and where the church have genuinely believed that praying for them means God will heal them, which of course he hasn’t. But when they die those same people are thought to be up there eternally worshipping the lord. Why?

I can see that a belief in God might somehow make people feel comforted that this isn’t the only life we will have, but what I can’t see is that a God who allows the amount of bad and suffering that goes on in the world, even on an individual level should be so worshipped. If a father treated his children in the way that the supposed Heavenly Father treats his, no-one would want anything to do with him. Yet worshippers of a God go to all and any lengths to ensure that they continue to do things in the name of the father and to not upset him for fear of the retribution they will receive.

I’m not one for dismissing belief as believing in the fairies and what-not (with the possible exception of the dinosaur deniers,) but I am becoming more and more curious as to how it is that people can believe in this individual God and actually believe that it is true when there is no evidence to suggest anything of the sort.

PS: I am talking about any and all religion not just one. My thought process being that if there were one God it would be the same God whether you are Christian muslim or Jewish but that the scriptures are defined by humans to make for the individual religions.

There is plenty of opium going around without belief in God - piles of it literally and plenty of alternatives forms too.

Haven't RTFT but yes OP, the concept of GOD is clearly a pile of shite that causes more fucking pain to actual living and sentient entities than anything else that humans have had the wit to create.

Sorry, posted too soon.

If there is an omnipotent being, it surely is just a more more powerful and earlier developed species.

And if this omnipotent being was so concerned with the human race as to dictate what clothes they wear or what they do with their genitals or who they love, I would class them as a disturbed megalomaniac.

So no, there is emphatically No God.

None.

I have been reading the koran and the bible because although I have always been an unbeliever, I am well traveled enough to see how differeng religions have shaped cultures in wonderful (and not so), colourful ways and give meaning to life.

Without doubt the principle tenets in both books are the subservient position of female to the male and while both books say each have a clear role in god's plan, it is clear that many men have used religion to subjugate women in the most horrific way in the name of god.

There are tangibles in life which can be explained by science to a large degree but it is the intangibles: love, hope, all emotion actually, all feelings, consciousness etc which cannot be explained which to me, sees the existence of an Other Being/spirit (hate the word God).

I also don't believe there is a set in stone transition from amoebic life forms to functioning human which is what evolutionary theory has us believe.

I find there is the same amount of arrogant self righteousness being espoused by both athiests and fervent christians/muslims.

The most wonderful parents and loveliest people can be muslims, christians, hindus, athiests etc etc...it is much more a personality led thing than pure religion led.

Basically there are fundamental flaws in god's 'book' and how it is interpreted which has given rise to some of the worst injustices in the world today.

Feodors- I watched your video. Basically, he was just saying, in a very measured, very English way that God must exist because fine tuning and love. “I can’t conceive of a better explanation so it must be God”. And a passing misrepresentation of Richard Dawkin (whom I loathe, so hate defending!)

As I have said, the only intellectually honest explanation of faith is “Nevertheless, I believe”

People come to religion for many reasons, not all of them good and I Wouldn't necessarily say they 'have faith' in a genuine way. But those who do usually have come to faith through a personal experience that means that to them, it is proven. An atheist might well say that I an deluding myself or I imagined it or it is a coincidence but I know what I experienced and continue to experience and I have no doubts. As a Christian, the Bible says that God will reveal himself to anyone who asks.

That should read 'I wouldn't necessarily say they all 'have faith' in a genuine way.'

What is having faith in an ungenuine way?

I mean people who don't, in my opinion, really have faith but identify themselves with a religion for other reasons.

Reasons like getting their children into a faith school as it's Ofsted rating is outstanding? How you can stand in a church and get your child christened I to a religion that you don't believe is beyond me.
The same people who will no doubt moan that their child is being taught religious topics at school.

I certainly know some who went through Bible college (Cliff College) and became ministers who didn't believe in God. It was a career move.
It is hard to imagine how someone would choose what is traditionally viewed as a vocation for a career, but it happens.
Congregation members often play along because they enjoy the companionship of the church and many of the functions a good church facilitates, but they don't believe in God. Some will openly admit it and a few will hide it. Churches welcome non believers, but it's their aim to convert you!

Reasons like getting their children into a faith school as it's Ofsted rating is outstanding?

It's sad that parents have to do this in order to have equal opportunities for their children.

Or they could take them to a non denominational school.....if only they didn't have to drive a bit further. Or start an independent school as some have done.

If the nondenominational school doesn't have as good a rating do you still go? Or drop their non beliefs as two of my atheist friends have done

Only a third of schools in England are faith schools so you have plenty of options. If you are truly hold strong atheist values, you'd move to be near a non faith school, like I had to to be near the one Catholic school in my area.

mintich I sent my kids to a non denominational school.

They received a lot of religious indoctrination there.

In Scotland just over 2500 schools, 370 of them are faith schools

In religious studies or in General?

"Only a third of schools in England are faith schools so you have plenty of options. If you are truly hold strong atheist values, you'd move to be near a non faith school, like I had to to be near the one Catholic school in my area." So you see no issue at all with people of faith having a choice of 30% more state funded schools than non faith people? That you can apply to catholic and non catholic schools, but even if I lived next door to my local primary school I would come at the bottom of the list of admission criteria if it was a faith school? That fine with you?

mintich - "active worship" ( praying, bible studies, weekly services at assembly held by local clergy, praise in singing etc)- as required by law in ALL state funded schools.

And how about the fact that you have to be at least a nominal Christian to take a full part in the life of any state funded school in the U.K.? Are you fine with that too?

You have no idea what you are talking about, Mintich. There’s no auch things as secular schooling in England. Are you aware of that? Such is the privilege of you poor, bashed Christians we are stuck with a demand that our children talk to your imaginary friend every day - BY LAW.

And, quite honestly, I would not move house to escape religion in a publicly funded service. Why the hell should I? Without hesitation, I would fall to my knees praising Jesus if it was necessary to access A PUBLICLY FUNDED SERVICE for my child.

Hypocritical? Sure. But no worse that using public funds to make sure your child goes to a school with bloodied corpses hanging off the walls in order to advance their brainwashing. (Yes, I went to a Catholic school).

And to the poster talking about arrogant atheists...OK, but you’ve decided all the scientists in the world, especially biologists, don’t really know what they are talking about because you, personally, don’t see how it can be true? That, right there, is arrogance. And I bet you’ve never picked up a single book on the subject ever, have you?

I don't know of any non faith schools mintich- none in my area.

I suspect only a dozen or so in the whole of England- and privately run.

Non faith schools do not qualify for any state funding.

These numbers are from the government website and is only including state run so they are out there

There are 3 in my town alone