To genuinely wonder how or why anyone believes in God?

[ChaosNeverRains]

Genuine question.

I was until fairly recently I think probably agnostic rather than anything else, having been brought up in a very church oriented school where the emphasis was all on sin and retribution and the need to worship this higher being and that if you lived every day then it was through God’s will - you get the picture. Until recently though I was prepared to believe that perhaps there was a higher being out there somewhere, and even now I can see that some could believe that there is a higher being out there or that there was at some point.

But what I don’t understand is why people seem to believe that there is a God who looks over them individually when everything points to that not being the case. People talk about the power of prayer when actually no such power exists. The man dying of cancer is no more or less likely to die if you prayed for him than if you didn’t. I know of some very devout Christians who have fallen victim to the most horrific illnesses and where the church have genuinely believed that praying for them means God will heal them, which of course he hasn’t. But when they die those same people are thought to be up there eternally worshipping the lord. Why?

I can see that a belief in God might somehow make people feel comforted that this isn’t the only life we will have, but what I can’t see is that a God who allows the amount of bad and suffering that goes on in the world, even on an individual level should be so worshipped. If a father treated his children in the way that the supposed Heavenly Father treats his, no-one would want anything to do with him. Yet worshippers of a God go to all and any lengths to ensure that they continue to do things in the name of the father and to not upset him for fear of the retribution they will receive.

I’m not one for dismissing belief as believing in the fairies and what-not (with the possible exception of the dinosaur deniers,) but I am becoming more and more curious as to how it is that people can believe in this individual God and actually believe that it is true when there is no evidence to suggest anything of the sort.

PS: I am talking about any and all religion not just one. My thought process being that if there were one God it would be the same God whether you are Christian muslim or Jewish but that the scriptures are defined by humans to make for the individual religions.

I agree that many Christians do continue to learn and sometimes re-evaluate, but the fundamentals rarely change.

The struggles tend to be personal issues, guidance from God on their own lives, not fundamental views. Once in a while something might rock their faith - unexpected personal tragedy or circumstance etc.

Stuff like views on abortion /sexuality are usually pretty firm (as they are with atheist to be fair). However, it's harder for a Christian to change their personal opinion on such subjects as they can be torn between their personal feelings and the prescribed ruling from their church leadership / synod.

It's my own personal view that many churches are accepting homosexuality and women in positions of authority through gritted teeth because they feel obliged to in the current climate. They appear to be doing their utmost to try and explain their change in stance after centuries of unequivocal teachings and condemnations.

This is not necessarily true at all Speak. Many religious people, even and especially priests, constantly reevaluate and struggle.

How awful for them..and yet they continue being priests- so not that much of a struggle is it.

The " struggle" with faith I would suggest is to do with the finer nuances, rather than the crux.

To be fair, Catholic Priests have had many struggles over the years:

1. To keep the choirboy quiet.
2. To keep the scandal quiet once they've been found out.
3. To quit the habit once the church has relocated them to a new parish with new choirboys.

Said tongue in cheek - with more than a hint of truth.

Bless 'em.

TheBrilliantMistake it's not very tasteful to joke about child abuse.

TheBrilliantMistake it's not very tasteful to joke about child abuse

It's the truth though.

You know what's not very tasteful, the fucking abusers who carry it out and the churches who hide it.
THAT's the problem.

Using tongue in cheek humour to remind people of that fact is not the problem. It's not laughing at abuse. It's mocking the 'struggle' of those who carry out the abuse and the terrible burden of having to move to a new parish. Oh the woe.

namechangerbob

This is about challenging the authority that priests have. And if humour is a tool the box then it is welcome. I am sure I speak for TheBrilliantMistake too- child abuse is a very serious issue.

But if pricking the pomposity of the arrogant men in the church in any way takes air out of their balloon deflates their arrogance then I welcome it.

Don't imaging for one second that this is diminishing the significance of child abuse.

I speak as a child abuse survivor btw.

I don't think it was aimed at you speakout, it was my sense of humour regarding the Catholic Church's problem with some priests.

It was not meant to offend anybody or mock child abuse. Quite the opposite as you kindly pointed out. It was designed, albeit tongue in cheek, to remind people that some of the biggest concerns SOME priests have had hasn't been their closeness to God, but how best to cover up their sins, and worse still (imo) the church's willingness to brush it under the carpet.

I don't disagree with you and I'm certainly not disputing that it's not true.
Every Catholic I have met is disgusted that this happened, it's repulsive.
I just find the post a bit insensitive.

Well, apologies for that.

I wasn’t being “touchy”. namechangerbob but, not wanting to scroll back and forensically investigate your posts, I’ll accept that I misunderstood what you were saying. Apologies.

FWIW..I don’t think there’s anyting wrong with what BrilliantMistake said. S/he was highlighting abuse, not mocking it.

It does actually raise another question -

I accept the concept of God allow mankind to exercise freewill, and that means there will be good and bad events at the hands of mankind as God 'watches on'.
I can even accept that the sins of the priest are his own sins, his own choices etc and God doesn't intervene on his foolish behalf.

However, it's a lot harder to accept that God doesn't intervene on behalf of the minor (but ultimately this is the same argument as why are there starving children?).
Worse still though, is how men extremely high up in the church hierarchy, purported to be closer still to God himself help to cover it up.
Yes these men are not perfect either, even the Pope wouldn't claim to be perfect, but this isn't a sinful thought, it's a sinful act with extremely dire consequences, and if God's church has a leadership willing to try and hide it, then it certainly does nothing to improve the image of God and his supposed mercy and grace.

Of course, it's not all Catholic priests and it's not limited to the Catholic church, or indeed religious figures, but it's particularly worrying when religious figures who have particularly intimate access to people AND protected privileges in law, carry out these acts, and worse still in God's name. Is sexual abuse worse than killing someone in God's name? that's a philosophical question, but some might argue it is.

I am a he.

Do I get a prize for catching this on 666 posts?

I was brought up Catholic. I don’t particularly believe in the bible. I’m fairly liberal and so a lot of the ideologies in the bible conflict with my own personal beliefs.

However, I feel a bit sad at the thought of there not being anything at all in terms of a God, or a higher power. I actually know really, how unlikely it is that there is anything in terms of a God but it being me comfort to have an almost blind faith in this invisible thing.

I also believe in Aliens and Ghosts too 😂🤷🏻‍♀️

TheBrilliantMistake

You make some important points.

But the church is up shit creek in terms of morality. Why they want to poke their heads into the crotch of human sexual activity is beyond me.
The church's greasy tendrils get everywhere.

Do I get a prize for catching this on 666 posts?

Four horsemen are currently on their way with your prize!

lol @ poke their head into the crotch of sexual activity.

Are you Spike Milligan's lovechild? ;-)

Ok- random.

I was laughing at the choice of words! very witty and reminded me ok Spike Milligan's great wit.

OK, thanks. I am giggling too. My usual daily random language use.

If there is a God why do they not show themselves? They could easily appear in a televised worldwide event such as the World Cup and then tell us all exactly what they want us to do. Why stand by and let millions die in the name of religion when they could clear up any doubts in seconds.

Apparently God has given us messages through Jesus, Mohammed, Ram, Buddha etc, but it’s all gone wrong hasn’t it? Maybe because the messages were given to men, perhaps women would have got the message right....

Anyway I refuse to worship any God until they show themselves. Until that happens I will presume that they don’t in fact exist. Or they aren’t worth worshipping because they can’t be bothered - which is the same difference in my opinion.

Because there's a paradox - that we are supposed to choose God freely and that requires fr u of man. At the same time, God knows our destiny, so that's preordination.
I guess you could liken it to a parent letting their children go and be themselves and live their own lives without intervening, but it's very hard to imagine a parent who wouldn't intervene in extreme circumstances or at least come to the rescue when needed (but Christians DO believe he comes to the rescue through prayer, just he doesn't always provide the solution you imagined!).