To genuinely wonder how or why anyone believes in God?

[ChaosNeverRains]

Genuine question.

I was until fairly recently I think probably agnostic rather than anything else, having been brought up in a very church oriented school where the emphasis was all on sin and retribution and the need to worship this higher being and that if you lived every day then it was through God’s will - you get the picture. Until recently though I was prepared to believe that perhaps there was a higher being out there somewhere, and even now I can see that some could believe that there is a higher being out there or that there was at some point.

But what I don’t understand is why people seem to believe that there is a God who looks over them individually when everything points to that not being the case. People talk about the power of prayer when actually no such power exists. The man dying of cancer is no more or less likely to die if you prayed for him than if you didn’t. I know of some very devout Christians who have fallen victim to the most horrific illnesses and where the church have genuinely believed that praying for them means God will heal them, which of course he hasn’t. But when they die those same people are thought to be up there eternally worshipping the lord. Why?

I can see that a belief in God might somehow make people feel comforted that this isn’t the only life we will have, but what I can’t see is that a God who allows the amount of bad and suffering that goes on in the world, even on an individual level should be so worshipped. If a father treated his children in the way that the supposed Heavenly Father treats his, no-one would want anything to do with him. Yet worshippers of a God go to all and any lengths to ensure that they continue to do things in the name of the father and to not upset him for fear of the retribution they will receive.

I’m not one for dismissing belief as believing in the fairies and what-not (with the possible exception of the dinosaur deniers,) but I am becoming more and more curious as to how it is that people can believe in this individual God and actually believe that it is true when there is no evidence to suggest anything of the sort.

PS: I am talking about any and all religion not just one. My thought process being that if there were one God it would be the same God whether you are Christian muslim or Jewish but that the scriptures are defined by humans to make for the individual religions.

I don’t know if you genuinely have mental issues and if so my apologies but it’s you who needs to go back and actually read what hasn’t been said. I’ve said a number of times all religions are bad and just because I’m talking about Christianity because you’re a Christian doesn’t mean I ‘side’ with anyone else. You stepping into hate speech with your Muslim tirade, there are other religions too you know

It was a decent debate until now.
I'm saddened at the accusations (in the guise of 'appear to be'). Well and truly below the belt that.

Not my god. Yours.
Absolutely nobody has said it doesn’t matter

Well god used to be a woman apparently. With such clear dominance of a patriarchal change over to a male god, that's why I don't believe. (Amongst other things!)

It's like taking power away from people (women). We can have so much power of our lives and state of mind. We don't need to look above and beyond. It is all about control with hierarchy.

We haven't said it doesn't matter.
We are saying it ALL matters... then and now. You specifically opted to use 'now' to gain a moral high ground because it paints a very favourable picture towards Christianity. You actually searched and found a website listing pretty obscure instances of Muslim attacks to back yourself up, and nobody disputes the figures. We just don't see how they 'win' some argument or prove any sort of point.

We KNOW there is a real problem with Islamic extremism right now, we also know there's been a problem with Christian extemism in the past.
There are still extremists on either side right now, and the Muslim side are carrying out most of the atrocities. ALL of that is accepted.

Pray tell how any of this justifies or explains believing in a god, or how one side is more right than the other)?

Can you please explain what your unopposed point about Islam committing more atrocities right now proves? What is it explaining? What is it clearing up?

brilliantmistake it hasn't been a brilliant debate at all.The thread was asking about people's perceptions of God. I and others told of ours but as usual the atheists came on to sneer and belittle. It happens every time. The thread got slightly derailed because people started attacking the bible, i mentioned the koran and wondered why that didn't bother them too.

I don't understand your issue with me mentioning extremist attacks in 2017, when i was making the point that this was the most recent list. I could go back 20 years and find similar lists but you are fixating on 1995. You want me to acknowledge that year, but you refuse to acknowledge the last 20 years.

This could have been such an interesting thread if the discussion had stayed the way the op meant it to. Shame the atheists yet again had to spoil it.

It doesn't brilliantmistake i didn't derail the thread. Check it out.

It could have been interesting except this part
‘Why don’t you believe green yoga?’
‘This is why...’
‘Well leave me alone I don’t want to talk to you’

People are talking about the bible and Christianity because the people we are talking to are Christian. If there was a Muslim talking then we’d be talking about the Koran. Should every thread start with ‘I dislike all religion however since I know about Christianity and I’m having a conversation with a Christian the focus will be mainly Christianity’

brilliantmistake it hasn't been a brilliant debate at all.

You've misquoted me.
I said it had been a decent debate. Decent because people had not plummeted into personal jibes. 'Appear to be siding with Muslim extremists' put paid to that, and that is NOT a misquote.

The brilliant mistake, give up now she doesn’t answer questions just makes bigoted remarks and has a strop

How arrogant to presume all the people are Christian when a thread is asking about people's perceptions on God. You have no idea what denominations people on here are.

Oh are you a Muslim? Am I conversing with the entirety of posters on this thread? No I’m conversing with you, jeez

but as usual the atheists came on to sneer and belittle.

Not to sneer and belittle.

To challenge ideas and christian privilege,

Islamic extremism does not exist in a vacuum. Christian attitudes have done much to fuel the fire.

Oh and I haven’t sneered or belittled, I’ve aaked so many questions and your responses are always ‘I hate Muslims, you’re horrible, leave me alone’ and maybe a comment based on a very twisted perception of what someone has written

green how utterly rude to refer to me as "she" in that derogatory manner. i suggest YOU give up now, you really aren't giving your fellow atheists a good name. No surprises though. But are you as rude in real life.

logicalmum

Denomination-

"a recognized autonomous branch of the Christian Church."

TheBrilliantMistake - you must have been reading a different OP from me!

The OP didn't ask for people's perceptions of god, it essentially said (albeit pretty politely) "AIBU to not understand how on earth anyone can a) believe in god when there's bugger all evidence and b) believe god is good when he'd actually have to be pretty horrible to create a world with so much crap in it?"

The only one hating is you, i don't hate anyone. But you obviously detest Christians.

I don't understand your issue with me mentioning extremist attacks in 2017, when i was making the point that this was the most recent list. I could go back 20 years and find similar lists but you are fixating on 1995. You want me to acknowledge that year, but you refuse to acknowledge the last 20 years.

I've acknowledged them, repeatedly. I have said it's TRUE that right now Islam is commiting the most atrocities. There's I've repeated it yet again. But I am still asking what point that is proving?

I am also saying that in a wider context - throughout history, both sides have blood on their hands, but perhaps more relevantly, in living memory (hence the 1995 Bosnia figures), Christianity's been responsible for Muslim deaths in high numbers. I don't say that to win points, I say it to illustrate that there is no justification or moral high ground on either side.

Criticising Christianity is not defending or supporting Islam. It most certainly is not defending or supporting extremism. Why would that even cross your mind as a possible interpretation, let alone type it out as an accusation? You still have no notion of how offensive a remark that was do you?

I'll not comment on that any more. It's done and dusted and I've vented my spleen on it. Back to the actual debate...

Oh I’m sorry are you male?
No you have been incredibly rude, bigoted and haven’t acted like a Christian in the slightest.

I don’t hate anyone, yet again you’re making stuff up, ignoring everything else and acting like a brat. You want me to leave you alone but you keep replying!

Wow speakout so we're all to blame for what's going on, good grief.

logicalmum- despite your misuse of the word "denomination", it is not surprising that people are commenting from the christian perspective.
We are historically and nominally a christian country.
Christianity continues to pervade and invade our children, it has shaped our culture, it is the religion that most of us are familiar with.

So why are you surprised that the christian god that is being discussed on this thread?

confused TheBrilliantMistake - you must have been reading a different OP from me!

I am pretty sure the thread veered well off that many posts ago!
It's moved on to a Christian vs Muslim debate (regrettably).

Mum

We were talking about evil in the world & how that squares with a benevolent God. As part of that, we were talking about the calls to murder in the Bible,

Yeah, but what about Islam, said you. They cut off people’s hands, you know.

Yes, we said...Islam is terrible & causing lots of harm, but it’s no worse than the harm caused by Christians in the past.

But Christians aren’t killing people now, said you.

No, not often, we said...but that’s thanks to the Enlightenment and the impact of secularism, free speech etc. But Christianity has a horrible history.

That Christians are largely no longer killing for Jesus does not make Christianity “better” than Islam. Any ideology that EVER instructs murder will be evil and barbaric even after it’s adherents are embarrassed into stopping.

Is that clearer?