To genuinely wonder how or why anyone believes in God?

[ChaosNeverRains]

Genuine question.

I was until fairly recently I think probably agnostic rather than anything else, having been brought up in a very church oriented school where the emphasis was all on sin and retribution and the need to worship this higher being and that if you lived every day then it was through God’s will - you get the picture. Until recently though I was prepared to believe that perhaps there was a higher being out there somewhere, and even now I can see that some could believe that there is a higher being out there or that there was at some point.

But what I don’t understand is why people seem to believe that there is a God who looks over them individually when everything points to that not being the case. People talk about the power of prayer when actually no such power exists. The man dying of cancer is no more or less likely to die if you prayed for him than if you didn’t. I know of some very devout Christians who have fallen victim to the most horrific illnesses and where the church have genuinely believed that praying for them means God will heal them, which of course he hasn’t. But when they die those same people are thought to be up there eternally worshipping the lord. Why?

I can see that a belief in God might somehow make people feel comforted that this isn’t the only life we will have, but what I can’t see is that a God who allows the amount of bad and suffering that goes on in the world, even on an individual level should be so worshipped. If a father treated his children in the way that the supposed Heavenly Father treats his, no-one would want anything to do with him. Yet worshippers of a God go to all and any lengths to ensure that they continue to do things in the name of the father and to not upset him for fear of the retribution they will receive.

I’m not one for dismissing belief as believing in the fairies and what-not (with the possible exception of the dinosaur deniers,) but I am becoming more and more curious as to how it is that people can believe in this individual God and actually believe that it is true when there is no evidence to suggest anything of the sort.

PS: I am talking about any and all religion not just one. My thought process being that if there were one God it would be the same God whether you are Christian muslim or Jewish but that the scriptures are defined by humans to make for the individual religions.

Logical mum, the NT takes the 10 commandments and condenses them into
Love the Lord your God with all your heart....
Love your neighbour as yourself

If all the world just followed evem just the love your neighbour as yourself bit, what a different world it would be.

And before anyone says it, I know that most religions would have a similar verse in their teaching. Why can't we just DO IT.

You seem ok with people killing others in your faith because more kill in another faith. Try reading something that doesn’t just support your own views, like history books.
I'm not ok with any killing but don't try and make out it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. Most of the world has moved on from barbaric killings in the name of religion.

I'm not sure that I'd say 'without him we are nothing' @logicalmum because the implication there ( for me ) is that if one doesn't have faith , then one is nothing ( sorry if my interpretation is wrong) and that isn't right for me.

For me , it matters not who you are, what you've done, what you believe -- you are loved regardless and because.

I understand that this might seem odd to some people and I in no way want anyone to believe as I do.

I simply believe in love. Sounds a bit woo woo, I know. But there we are 🤪🤪

Speakout......If God does exist then he is surely allowed some degree of importance.?!
The Sabbath law is not really just to big up God either, it is really to teach us that our bodies were not designed to work 24/7 and benefit from a 'day of rest'. This is for our benefit, not God , although some of us choose to use that day to meet with other believers.and worship.

seventh i agree about love. I think it's an emotion that God gave us. Wherein the world would we be without it. To me, God is love. We are all part of Gods love. We need more love in the world right now.

And the 10 commandments even contains a nice threat "I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;"

What does that mean exactly?

@speakout

It means that religion/religious texts throughout time, try to control and direct the people.

Through fear and threats.

Why did you bring up the Koran in the first place, Mum? It had no bearing whatsoever on anything. You are a Christian and were talking about Christianity.

You did so to try and present the idea that Christianity is somehow more moral than Islam and had a little rant about hands being chopped off to illustrate it. I had to point out some evil doctrines in the Bible.

Vdb There have been lots of clever Christians in history. And? In a society where most people were Christian no matter what their IQ then this is entirely irrelevant. I am pretty sure I’d have been a Christian if I had lived pre-Darwin.

The issue is whether in the light of Darwin and all of the extraordinary scientific insights we’ve gained recently whether it’s still belief ingelligent people hold on to?

If by intelligent we mean committed to reason and evidence, then generally speaking, it is not.

In essence, the more educated a person is in our society, the greater the likelihood of atheism. Study after study has borne this out.

Which is not to suggest you can’t have a PhD and an IQ of 200 and not be a Christian, plenty of such people are, but their arguments for God are always as lame as those of less educated people because it’s emotion rather than intellect that drives faith.

They want to believe and so they do. They don’t use reason or evidence to attain their belief and so it fails them when they try to justify it.

The cleverest human being of all time (IMO) was Issac Newton. He was a fully fledged Christian with a lot of batshit ideas & spent a great deal of time practicing (or trying to) alchemy.

So, “there have been lots of clever Christians in the past” is ....meh.

Is Ebola virus all part of “God’s love”?

“God loves us all equally. Without him we are nothing.”

So-it’s OK for you to say that about non Christians...........

I'm only surprised no one else brought it up mac , there was really no need for the bible to have come into it then by that token. The thread was about people's perceptions of God, why does that automatically assume to be about Christians.....but as per usual, an opportunity not to be missed for a good old bit of Christian bashing eh?

Yes mac i said he loves us all equally, not a bad old faith to think that eh?

The ebola virus is caused because of man not God.

Is Ebola virus all part of “God’s love”?

See ....here's one of my beefs with religion @TabbyMack

Religion says - gods calling the shots , you have to do what God's leaders say or be smote to hell .... and then, when bad things happen to good people, the question is - why has god done this?

But god hasn't DONE it. It's happened ( I could explain my reasoning but you would all think I'm crazier than you do already!) but god hasn't done it. God doesn't kick people into touch, god isn't vengeful.

Religion with its desperate need to control ....shoots itself in the bollox by trying to control the people through gods supposed vengeance and booming judgement.

Makes me puke 🤮

“an opportunity not to be missed for a good old bit of Christian bashing eh?”

Says the person who has just said that atheists are “nothing”......

So mac you obviously have issues with Christianity and when i pointed out how maybe you might have issues about other religions, hence me mentioning things about Islam, why the hell was that a rant? and yours isn't about Christianity?. So you obviously turn a blind eye to other religions faults and just want to concentrate on Christianity. Do me a favour. Everything about other religions is a "rant" but it's fine for you to rant about Christians. Unbelievable.

What are you on about Bertrand?

Any time anyone asks you about YOUR religion you say ‘well the Koran is worse’
I can’t speak for anyone else but I don’t believe in a god or religion but there’s no point talking to you about the Koran when you’re not Muslim

Bertrand logicalmum ignores most of what people type and only picks the bits she feels she can argue with... a bit like what Christians do with the bible

Luke 17:20-21 King James Version (KJV)

20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

So, God's not here, God's not there.
God is not like a bollard, but something sensed through the heart and spirit.

The implication that Christians aren't capable of thinking rationally and/or scientifically is just absurd.

There are plenty of Christians passing through our universities including Oxbridge / Imperial et al) and at the cutting edge of science, however, I would say that science is having a distinct effect on the interpretations of religious texts such as the Bible where former literal interpretations are now metaphorical ones.

Even proving the inaccuracies of biblical tales (Adam and Eve / Noah etc) wouldn't disprove the existence of a god. Religion of some sort may very well always exist because we can't disprove God (or a god).

We could end up in a situation where the progress of science either reduces the belief in a god to a very small minority, or conversely where we feel dehumanised and actively seek out a god thus increasing the number of 'believers' (imagine a world where our automation makes us question the point of humanity).

Personally I don't see the point in trying to correlate religion an intelligence. There are highly intelligent murderers and some unintelligent world leaders (although they clearly have political and social intelligence). Deep down, I feel the underlying implication is 'if you believe in a god, you're a little bit thick'. I do not subscribe to that.

I am perfectly prepared to speak against Islam too. I am an equal opportunities religion opposer. If a Muslim came on here I would happily challenge her too.

Logicalmum- what does saying “without God we are nothing” say about atheists?

“Deep down, I feel the underlying implication is 'if you believe in a god, you're a little bit thick'. I do not subscribe to that.”

No. Neither do I. I do subscribe to the idea that if you try to point out things in the material world and use them as proof of the existence of God, like the alignment of planets or that fantastic American preacher who thinks that the fact that a banana is curved towards your mouth is proof of God’s plan are a little bit thick, though. The only intellectually acceptable stance is “Nevertheless, I believe.,

I don't understand why threads like this turn into so much people bashing.

We have different beliefs, faiths, races, nationalities, views and opinions, each of these make us unique. Neither makes us of less value and love. We are who we are.

Mosts threads on here are answered with 'it's none of your business' I see this no different, how someone else conducts and lives their life makes no difference to you. So what if someone who is ill prays to God, but you don't understand stand it. If it makes them feel better, what's the big deal?

I agree, BrilliantMistake. Good thing I didn’t say that, isn’t it?

Mum I have “an issue” with all religions. We tend to talk about Christianity on here more than anything else because it’s the most familiar. I do, and have, said exactly the same things regarding Islam - and been called a racist and a bigot by virtue-signalling dickheads for my efforts.