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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To genuinely wonder how or why anyone believes in God?

999 replies

ChaosNeverRains · 15/03/2018 10:13

Genuine question.

I was until fairly recently I think probably agnostic rather than anything else, having been brought up in a very church oriented school where the emphasis was all on sin and retribution and the need to worship this higher being and that if you lived every day then it was through God’s will - you get the picture. Until recently though I was prepared to believe that perhaps there was a higher being out there somewhere, and even now I can see that some could believe that there is a higher being out there or that there was at some point.

But what I don’t understand is why people seem to believe that there is a God who looks over them individually when everything points to that not being the case. People talk about the power of prayer when actually no such power exists. The man dying of cancer is no more or less likely to die if you prayed for him than if you didn’t. I know of some very devout Christians who have fallen victim to the most horrific illnesses and where the church have genuinely believed that praying for them means God will heal them, which of course he hasn’t. But when they die those same people are thought to be up there eternally worshipping the lord. Why?

I can see that a belief in God might somehow make people feel comforted that this isn’t the only life we will have, but what I can’t see is that a God who allows the amount of bad and suffering that goes on in the world, even on an individual level should be so worshipped. If a father treated his children in the way that the supposed Heavenly Father treats his, no-one would want anything to do with him. Yet worshippers of a God go to all and any lengths to ensure that they continue to do things in the name of the father and to not upset him for fear of the retribution they will receive.

I’m not one for dismissing belief as believing in the fairies and what-not (with the possible exception of the dinosaur deniers,) but I am becoming more and more curious as to how it is that people can believe in this individual God and actually believe that it is true when there is no evidence to suggest anything of the sort.

PS: I am talking about any and all religion not just one. My thought process being that if there were one God it would be the same God whether you are Christian muslim or Jewish but that the scriptures are defined by humans to make for the individual religions.

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Greenyogagirl · 17/03/2018 00:42

In saying that though your god could be any one of hundreds? If you think the bible is just a useful tool for atheists you don’t have a holy book. So you could believe in Greek gods or roman gods, Hindu gods or pagan gods

Feodora · 17/03/2018 00:49

if there’s a god (there isn’t!) who made him/her?

Look up the cosmological argument for one response to this.

So many of the questions asked here have been asked over the millennia and I am sure in the millennia to come!

logicalmum · 17/03/2018 00:50

No you misunderstood me, i didn't mean the bible was just a useful tool for atheists. That's not what i meant. I meant it certainly can come in handy if they want to pick parts out of it that shows God in a way that suits them. Anyone can interpret something anyway they want if they're determined to.

logicalmum · 17/03/2018 00:51

There's only one God green.

Greenyogagirl · 17/03/2018 00:56

How is directly quoting the bible interpreting it in a bad way? But of course you’ll blame the writers of it. So you weren’t there but you’ll follow writers who you admit probably didn’t accurately record things.
Christianity isn’t that old, how do you know your god is the one god?

seventh · 17/03/2018 05:21

God and religion are completely different and completely separate - imo - in the main - not linked at all

God doesn't watch over each of us individually imo. We're responsible for our own lives. God is there for support and love , should we choose to use her. It doesn't matter if we believe or not. She doesn't mind.

TabbyMack · 17/03/2018 07:59

The cosmological argument is not an “answer” at all, and (like all theistic brain scrambles) can be deunked in about 3 seconds.

You know, Hitler never killed anyone. Not a single time. It was Nazi soldiers that did all that...beings with free will.

But it was part of Hitler’s plan that all those innocents had to die. He could have changed the plan or changed his orders but he didn’t...he let people suffer because of his plan.

Sound familiar, Logicalmum?

BertrandRussell · 17/03/2018 08:01

"God doesn't watch over each of us individually imo"

Well, except that Christianity specifically says he does............

seventh · 17/03/2018 08:54

Indeed Christianity says that.

I can only speak for me. God and religion aren't linked imo.

TabbyMack · 17/03/2018 09:04

If you didn’t get your information from any religious texts, Seventh, how do you know that he/she/it is there to love and support us and that he/she/it doesn’t mind whether we believe or not?

Is that all just assumption on your part?

CharlotteCollinsneeLucas · 17/03/2018 09:08

Nazi soldiers had free will? Well, up to a point. What about the brainwashing? The peer pressure? The terrifying consequences if they didn't follow orders?

Not that I'm saying they're blameless. But Hitler had a lot of control. Usually the complaint with God is that he doesn't control (evil) people enough.

seventh · 17/03/2018 09:11

Faith is always a belief/assumption/ feeling/ personal knowing, isn't it?

I mean .... there's no actual proof 😊😎

BertrandRussell · 17/03/2018 09:14

But being a Christian means flowing a few basic rules. You can make up your own version, of course and believe whatever you want. But that doesn't make you a Christian.

logicalmum · 17/03/2018 09:18

Greenyogagirl Of COURSE the bible is open to interpretation, as is the koran which literally tells people to kill all non believers and to chop off heads and hands etc. (you should read it, makes an interesting read) How awful if that was taken literally by all, but many do..Anything written in those times was often quite violent.......and as i said i don't literally follow the bible anyway. i just believe in God, that is enough, don't ridicule me for it please, it shouldn't bother you.

seventh · 17/03/2018 09:21

I don't know if you're addressing me @BertrandRussell but if you are - I have never said I'm a Christian. I don't follow a religion and don't find god in religion as a rule.

BertrandRussell · 17/03/2018 09:21

Logicalmum-asking questions is not ridicule. If you think it is, perhaps this isn't the thread for you?

logicalmum · 17/03/2018 09:22

Bertrand the basic "rules" for being a Christian is "doing to others as you would be done by", if you stick to that you can't really go wrong.

TabbyMack · 17/03/2018 09:23

What about the brainwashing? The peer pressure? The terrifying consequences if they didn’t follow orders?

Indeed. The same pressures Christians (& Muslims et al) have been operating under for centuries.

Do what I say or suffer seems to be a perfectly moral way of behaving if you’re a made up psychopath in the sky but not when you’re a flesh and blood one here on Earth.

Odd that.

CharlotteCollinsneeLucas · 17/03/2018 09:25

When did God say, "Do as I say or suffer"?

logicalmum · 17/03/2018 09:25

bertrand i haven't been asked any questions and how odd to say that this isn't the thread for me given the title of the thread like. Is it the thread for all you atheists though.

TabbyMack · 17/03/2018 09:26

The “basic rules” for being a Christian is not “do unto others as you would be done by” (a sentiment expressed many, many years before Jesus showed up, btw)...that’s just one of them.

You should read the Bible...it makes interesting reading. It’s every bit as murderous as the Koran.

logicalmum · 17/03/2018 09:27

A psychopath in the sky??? what a truly awful statement, and odd too.

logicalmum · 17/03/2018 09:28

In the bible does it say to go out and kill all non believers?

TabbyMack · 17/03/2018 09:29

When did God say do as I say or suffer

Jesus (during the time when God is masquerading as his own son in order to sacrifice himself to himself) introduces the notion of hell and makes it clear that anyone not following him will be off there.

Seriously, do no Christians ever read their own holy book?

mintich · 17/03/2018 09:32

I always find with faith that there is no point explaining to others why you believe as they always want to prove you wrong as shown by this thread. Especially by people who claim to know all about the faith despite not believing.
I think if you believe, you believe, if you don't, you don't! I used to always want to explain to others but I don't now as I don't think anyone is genuinely interested. It's just a conversation that will go round in circles.