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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To genuinely wonder how or why anyone believes in God?

999 replies

ChaosNeverRains · 15/03/2018 10:13

Genuine question.

I was until fairly recently I think probably agnostic rather than anything else, having been brought up in a very church oriented school where the emphasis was all on sin and retribution and the need to worship this higher being and that if you lived every day then it was through God’s will - you get the picture. Until recently though I was prepared to believe that perhaps there was a higher being out there somewhere, and even now I can see that some could believe that there is a higher being out there or that there was at some point.

But what I don’t understand is why people seem to believe that there is a God who looks over them individually when everything points to that not being the case. People talk about the power of prayer when actually no such power exists. The man dying of cancer is no more or less likely to die if you prayed for him than if you didn’t. I know of some very devout Christians who have fallen victim to the most horrific illnesses and where the church have genuinely believed that praying for them means God will heal them, which of course he hasn’t. But when they die those same people are thought to be up there eternally worshipping the lord. Why?

I can see that a belief in God might somehow make people feel comforted that this isn’t the only life we will have, but what I can’t see is that a God who allows the amount of bad and suffering that goes on in the world, even on an individual level should be so worshipped. If a father treated his children in the way that the supposed Heavenly Father treats his, no-one would want anything to do with him. Yet worshippers of a God go to all and any lengths to ensure that they continue to do things in the name of the father and to not upset him for fear of the retribution they will receive.

I’m not one for dismissing belief as believing in the fairies and what-not (with the possible exception of the dinosaur deniers,) but I am becoming more and more curious as to how it is that people can believe in this individual God and actually believe that it is true when there is no evidence to suggest anything of the sort.

PS: I am talking about any and all religion not just one. My thought process being that if there were one God it would be the same God whether you are Christian muslim or Jewish but that the scriptures are defined by humans to make for the individual religions.

OP posts:
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logicalmum · 16/03/2018 22:48

So if prayers are thought to work it’s divine intervention but the terrible evils in the world are due to man?
God is love, all the goodness and love in the world is God at work. There is good and evil in the world. The evil isn't of God.

To genuinely wonder how or why anyone believes in God?
nolongersurprised · 16/03/2018 22:54

The idea of dying early must surely be worse if you believe this life is all there is

But surely that’s one of the main reasons why there have been and are still so many gods created by so many cultures. Fear of the unknown and hubris - the latter because we think we are the most important of all of the animals and there couldn’t possibly be suffering without point.

nolongersurprised · 16/03/2018 23:02

*God is love, all the goodness and love in the world is God at work”.

But he’s pretty nuanced with love as well, isn’t he? No sexual love before marriage, no same sex love, no anal sex. He’s fairly obsessed with women’s bits and sex in general, maybe he should broaden his focus and spread some of that love to spare a few natural disasters.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 16/03/2018 23:07

There is good and evil in the world. The evil isn't of God

That sounds to me very similar to "Guns dont kill people, people kill people". Glad to know god has taken one out of the Trump book.

Greenyogagirl · 16/03/2018 23:18

god is love
God put temptation in Eden then cursed eve and every woman since to suffer in childbirth and cursed Adam and every man since to work to survive.
God isn’t love he is cruelty itself. The bible says every baby and child is a sinner and will go to hell because Adam and Eve ate the stupid apple that he put in the garden to test them.
Yeah, that’s love Hmm

TooManyMiles · 16/03/2018 23:21

I like this idea by Jennifer Worth in "Call the Midwife":
God isn’t in the event
God is in the results after the event. He is in the love and concern and caring.

logicalmum · 16/03/2018 23:21

Well it really shouldn't matter should it, if you acknowledge all those faults that means you DO believe., and if you do, who are you to criticise Gods way.....If you don't believe there's no point in discussing is there.

Greenyogagirl · 16/03/2018 23:21

Oh and let’s not forget the story where him and the devil had a bet.
The devil said you’re only loved because they have easy lives, god disagreed and let the devil destroy a man and his family just so when the man didn’t lose faith god could turn around and say ‘told you so’

Greenyogagirl · 16/03/2018 23:22

Logical mum surely that just means you have no leg to stand on so don’t want to discuss it?
The faults are with the idiots who believe a novel written by a thousand different men, not with a god I don’t believe in

logicalmum · 16/03/2018 23:32

greenyogagirl what do you want me to say, what do you mean i "have no leg to stand on", so because i can't prove anything i must be wrong. There's really nothing to say, i believe in God, you don't. Fine, what is the argument, i'm certainly not trying to convert you, i've never done that in my life. But why it should bother anyone about my faith is puzzling.

To genuinely wonder how or why anyone believes in God?
Greenyogagirl · 16/03/2018 23:33

The op asked why you would believe and I’m the same, the bible is awful so I don’t understand how anyone can believe

marchin1984 · 16/03/2018 23:40

Seriously! If he's so good and powerful he should intervene. What a load of nonsense! He'd stand by and let a baby be gassed in a concentration camp - nice!

several humans much less powerful than god intervened. I guess they had more of conscience than god.

logicalmum · 16/03/2018 23:55

How do you know God hasn't intervened, regarding the judgement of the nazis. As i keep saying, what is the this obsession with God intervening anyway. It is obviously not his plan to interfere, but the evil ones will get their day i'm sure. If God was going to intervene with all the wrongdoings of the world, then what would be the point of heaven. Our time on earth is meant for learning. Might be a bit harder for those with closed minds i suppose.

Greenyogagirl · 16/03/2018 23:56

I lean towards Buddhism and agree life is for learning.
However Buddhists don’t have a bible.
How can you believe god is loving when the bible states the horrific things he’s done?

Greenyogagirl · 16/03/2018 23:58

Eve sinned by eating the apple.
She was cursed to have awful childbirth.
Jesus died for our sins (well gave up his weekend) and we were forgiven.
Yet we still carry the curses he put on Adam and Eve so we are not forgiven?

logicalmum · 17/03/2018 00:12

A lot of bitterness towards this God that no one believes in. Hmm

logicalmum · 17/03/2018 00:13

green we are forgiven through babtism.

Greenyogagirl · 17/03/2018 00:16

Not bitterness, just astonishment that anyone could believe an utterly ridiculous book. Give it a while and Harry Potter will be a religion I’m sure.
So Jesus missed his weekend for no reason then? And new born babies who die go to hell? People who are completely free from sin but haven’t washed in church go to hell? It’s completely bonkers

logicalmum · 17/03/2018 00:20

green do you also think the koran is a bonkers book?

Greenyogagirl · 17/03/2018 00:27

I haven’t read it so can’t comment

Feodora · 17/03/2018 00:29

when the bible states the horrific things he’s done?

The God of the books of the Old Testament does come across as violent and capricious at times. However, these books were written by humans at certain times in human history in vastly different cultures to ours. Some writers reasonably suggest whenever different stories in the bible are read they should be through the lens of the culture of the time they were written. Perhaps the writers of the bible stories projected their desires of what kind of God they wished for?

logicalmum · 17/03/2018 00:29

Neither have i but i still know a lot of the content. Read it, it might make the bible seem tame.

Greenyogagirl · 17/03/2018 00:32

A worse book doesn’t make another one better.
I have Christian friends and I respect their beliefs (believe it or not!) and I’ve had so many conversations with them. My son is interested in Christianity so we went to church every Sunday for around a year (as I think it’s important he follows his heart and finds his own path) and I have a bible that I’ve read. Despite all that I just don’t get it. I wish I did because I think it must be a really nice feeling to have that faith but I just can’t comprehend it at all

BinkyBuntyFintyCunty · 17/03/2018 00:39

If there’s a god (there isn’t!) who made him/her?

logicalmum · 17/03/2018 00:40

Well a lot of people get great comfort from it. But obviously it was written by man and was open to their interpretation at the time. I don't really read it myself, i don't think it's necessary to read the bible to have faith in God anyway. But it's a useful tool for atheists i suppose, to cherry pick the bad bits.

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