Girls t shirt from next that says, you are not properly dressed without a smile

[LardLizard]

Wtf !!!!

No but what I mean is if it DID exist how is it an example of gender stereotyping if it also exists on a boy's t shirt?

“No but what I mean is if it DID exist how is it an example of gender stereotyping if it also exists on a boy's t shirt?”

That’s interesting. I think it’s all a matter of perception. The issue is that the “give us a smile, love “ line is one that strangers use to girls and women in a way that they would never use to men and boys- in fact, strangers tend not to police the behaviour of men and boys at all. And being nice and compliant and smiley is not behaviour society expects of men and boys- rather the opposite. So a boy wearing it would be perceived as a bit edgy and ironic. A girl? Just more of the same-along with all the “little princess” stuff.

How the actual heck are people still arguing over a non existent t-shirt
It isn't about little girls,as it seems to be marketed as a male tshirt, but hey, it must be sexist even though the sodding thing seems to be a figment of the OP's imagination lol.
It must be nice to be so sure one's right even on it being pointed out and just making yourself look a bit of a plonker in the process by still stating it's somehow sexist just because other tshirts are. Not a blokes one.
This must be like what the Flat Earthers inside thought process is like lol, they're "right" even though science batters them round the head with facts.

But yes, I do now know it’s a line from a song! But unless I was the only person in the world who didn’t............

I'm not sure I like the idea of my (imaginary - I don't have one!) son being ok to wear that top though and my daughters not been able to. Doesn't that go against all the arguments of equality etc? I want my DDs to wear anything they want without worrying how it may be perceived. And if the t shirt exists for boys and girls that's a good thing isn't it? Isn't the problem with those perceiving issues with it? (Genuine question here by the way. Not trying to be argumentative. Finding this an interesting discussion as that t shirt wouldn't have registered on my radar as being in any way controversial)

Yeah-I see what you mean. But if this hypothetical t shirt was really a children's one it would be most definitely in the girl's section in high street shops. Children's clothes are incredibly gendered-it would be a pretty brave boy that wore it. It's only by challenging the stereotyping that we'll get to a place where girls and boys can just wear whatever they want. Which is really what this thread is about!

Incidentally, when I said thr society doesn't police men and boys' behaviour I was being too simplistic of course. Society would certainly "police" a boy wearing this T shirt. I showed it to my teenage ds and he really liked it- but he said "I don't mind people thinking I'm gay"

Because it's essentially telling women to 'smile'.

Can someone please explain how this is telling women to smile as opposed to both women and men? Particularly given that the same message appears on men's T shirts?

That's what I was thinking Gnother. Because even if it's on a girls t shirt it's not saying 'girls are never fully dressed without a smile'

I have tried to Gnother. I am sorry that I seem to have failed.

Just when I thought this thread couldn't get any weirder.[santa]

OK, I've looked through your messages, Bertrand, but they don't explain why this message is deemed to be directed at girls and women. By all means correct me if I'm wrong, but your point seems to be:

1. This is a message which you personally would expect to see on girls' shirts, though you accept that in this instance it is on both boys' and girls' shirts:

1. There are far too many instances of clothing for children being stereotypically gendered.

I agree completely about no. 2, but I don't see how the manufacturers can be blamed for your perception as set out in no. 1, nor why OP should be so indignant about it. Surely if anything the fact that they produce it for both sexes show that they are avoiding stereotypes? You may perceive that not many boys will want to wear the shirt, or feel that it portrays them as gay, but that doesn't meant that it should not be produced.

I can't speak for the OP-and she certainly seems unable to speak for herself, so who knows what she meant?
Yes it's great that it's a M and F t shirt. As I said, my teenage ds wants one. What I am trying to say is that on a boy it would be a stand out slogan. You would have to be a pretty confident boy to wear it - and that is because it is the sort of slogan that is routine on girl's clothes. It would vanish into all the others on the girls' rail- but cause a double take if it was on the boys'. Fair play to the manufacturer of course. I wish more manufacturers of children's clothes followed their lead. It's getting bettter- but it's still predominantly sugar and spice for girls and snips and snails for boys..

CompleteAisling I did read the whole thread. And it does say what I thought it did. You don’t feel it’s open to any interpretation at all- that’s fine and I respect that, but lots of other people have shared what they feel it could be taken to mean. I get that you’re thinking ‘it means what it means, there is no interpretation to be done’- but lots of people don’t agree with that. Fine to have those opposing views, just don’t get why there’s any need to be quite as rude as some posters have been (am not meaning you in particular) when someone had a different view.

slogans on t shirts do matter.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-43424172

Topman withdraws shirt amid Hillsborough anger

Yes. But only if they're real t-shirts.

I wonder how much slogans matter? I wonder how many scousers police tshirts with the number 39 on them for offence? Not many I reckon.

Just another example of professional offence takers. So obviously the usual suspects are going to pop up on this thread. I wonder when ‘offence’ is going to start being listed as an official hobby?

I don't understand why some people bother getting out of bed in the morning if EVERY little thing is offensive 🙄

I don’t know enough about the TopShot T shirt or about Hillsborough to comment on that one, really. All I can say is that I though Hillsborough as soon as I saw it. But I am old enough to remember the horror of the event, and the appalling behaviour of the police at the time, and if the people of Liverpool didn’t like the shirt then that’s fine by me.

I think gender specific clothes for children do matter. ( before anyone says that the t shirt didn’t exist/the one for adults was for men and women and was a line from a sing anyway- yes, I know- but can we talk about the subject in a broader way now?) I think they matter because stereotyping children from an incredibly early age- even before they are born- means that thinking there is girl’s stuff and boy’s stuff becomes part of their mental furniture. And anything, however small, that reinforces that mind set is best avoided.

There have been many 'real' t shirts for children Dianne that have been subjected to scrutiny.

Absolutely Bertrand but there are some on that thread on mumsnet who will argue that offence is being taken where none exists.

" Absolutely Bertrand but there are some on that thread on mumsnet who will argue that offence is being taken where none exists."
That seems a common. Mumsnet position on many things. The Hillsborough thing seems to me to be so particularly specific and awful that if there is the merest suspicion of an issue the t shirt should go-whatever the intent. But anyway. Back to gender stereotyping.

See,I'm on the Hillsborough thread too and that seriously HAS to be a dig at the victims, too many massive coincidences on one tshirt if not.
This "smile" tshirt - though, seriously, non existent issue as it is a totally hypothetical tshirt anyway by the looks and a few people's projection.
Read up on Hillsborough, and then the thread and you'd have to be seriously dim not to see a correlation between it all.
Most definitely offensive. A hypothetical tshirt that doesn't even seem to exist for girls.... nope.

I think they matter because stereotyping children from an incredibly early age- even before they are born- means that thinking there is girl’s stuff and boy’s stuff becomes part of their mental furniture

You're the one who immediately jumped to it was about girls though when it was nothing of the sort.
You're doing it as a "broader issue" when kids weren't even brought into it in the first place. You put them there and said it must be about girls as they're always being told to smile.
This tshirt - projection
Hillsborough - vile

I don’t think most people are ‘offended’. Just wanting to rationally debate an interesting point. Speaking for myself anyway.

Cady Could you be more patronising?

What a shitty thing to post.