to not let his mum be involved with our baby

[gta]

DPs mum is an alcoholic but wont admit it
In September 2017 she was in hospital with liver disease, had horrendous jaundice, hair fell out etc she didn't respond to treatment in hospital and was told to basically go home and if she lived long enough to get a liver transplant , great ! but we should get ready for her to die .

So between September to the end of October everything was fab, she made an AMAZING recovery which even doctors were shocked at.
On her 50th birthday at the beginning of November she had 5 glasses of wine at the birthday meal. She has 7 children and we were all understandably very concerned when we saw this.
The next day she reassured my partner and his brother (the eldest out of the 7) that it was a one off and she wont be drinking again. We were all very stupid to believe this.
It has since gone from a one off on her birthday meal, to a one off on special occasions (Christmas, NYE, her DPs Birthday). She is the matriarch of the family and a very fiery woman and i think everyone has brushed it under the carpet in fear of starting an absolute shit storm with her.

Until on Mothers Day when me and my DP went round to see her and he basically lost the plot at her , she looked horrendous , her hair has started falling out again , she was bloated and puffy and stunk of alcohol. She admitted she was drinking a bit more than she should and told him she would pack it in. All good or so we thought.

After seeing his mum we nipped into town and bumped into my partners younger sister who is 18 where she told us she had found a bottle of vodka hidden behind the cleaning products and she had a sip of her mums "water" and it was actually vodka and she was very worried.

We went back to his mums house to confront her about this as she hadn't mentioned any vodka just she was drinking a bit too much wine on quiz night at the pub, on a friday night etc.
She wasnt in as she was out with her own mum , partner and his mum for a mothers day meal. My partner decided to search the house and go through the bottle bin where he found 33 LITRES OF EMPTY VODKA BOTTLES! and 11 BOTTLES OF WINE! the bin was last collected on the 22nd February!

There was a massive confrontation where my partner bagged up all the bottles and dumped them at her table in the restaurant where she was having her mothers day meal in the hope of shaming her into admitting she was an alcoholic and needed help.

When she was in hospital in September, my partner took a week off work and gutted her house as it was rancid, and was at the hospital every single day after work.
My partner has said he simply cant do it anymore that shes just causing us stress and until she can admit that shes an alcoholic and goes to AA meetings, the GP, whatever, then we need to cut contact and that includes when our baby is born early August.
She still wont admit to being an alcoholic and is trying to guilt us into talking to her/seeing her .
Are we being unreasonable ?!

Your MIL is a victim as well as your DH. The thing is your DH can’t help her or save her. She has to want to do it and want to quite badly to get through it. Your DH needs to help himself. A support group for family members affected by addiction would be a good starting point. It is a bit like how on a plane they tell you to put your mask on first before helping your child. You have to be healthy to support an addict.

The restaurant situation was awful, desperation or not. He needs to see how his mum’s addiction is causing him pain and problems. He needs to deal with those for himself.

While I have every sympathy in the world for your MIL. She isn’t a safe person and as such shouldn’t be around your child. My Grandad was an alcoholic and my dad thought his grandchildren would be the key to recovery. We weren’t. He used to fall over and hurt himself while drunk and say he’d be fine after a brandy. I repeated it when I fell over at school. That was the point that my dad realised that I was learning that my Grandad’s behaviour was acceptable and even worse normal.

Most addicts have to hit their lowest point to be able to change. I am so proud of my grandad as he did change. It was losing his family that was his rock bottom lowest point. While ever he was able to see us, hold us and spend time with us he managed to convince himself that he mustn’t have a problem. If he was an alcoholic then there is no way my dad would let him see us. So he must be fine.

A child needs supportive people to teach them healthy boundaries. Keeping your child away shouldn’t be about hurting MIL or getting her to change but simply about keeping your child safe. Be very clear about what is needed to be in contact.

No matter how much is given, an addict will always want more. They will find the weapon that works and wield it. The only thing you can do is to say ‘I love you but I won’t watch you destroy yourself. When and if you are sober and receiving treatment, let me know.’

He dumped 33 bottles on a table in a restaurant on Mothers' Day?

I really wouldn't want to be with someone who even contemplated that.

Op we had a family member like this. It was a terrible time (20 years apparently) something clicked and a drop hasn't been touched now for 15 years. Picture of health!

bluelady alternatively , at DPs birthday party 2 years ago she got blind drunk and started taking her clothes off in front of all friends family and work colleagues and got aggressive when told to pack it in, she can't remember a thing. She is literally out of control

He has had a shit time and a shit childhood due to his parents poor decisions and alcohol . My DP was 6 when his dad had an alcohol related stroke and died. My DP was left with his body for 3 hours until his mum came home . I feel sorry for him. It's ruined his family

I really wouldn't want to be with someone who even contemplated that

What a horrible thing to say to the OP after everything that has been said. Im guessing you have zero experience of having an alcoholic parent then Bluelady? And zero empathy to about what people can be driven to by the looks of it when someone they love is killing themselves and refusing to get help?. I wouldnt want to be with some like yourself that lacks empathy and compassion.

You 're right I have zero compassion for someone who would behave like that. How could it possibly help? What did it achieve? How did it make all the other customers feel? It was completely inappropriate behaviour.

I wouldnt want to be with some like yourself that lacks empathy and compassion.
^^^
Yes yes yes.
Bluelady are you genuinely that devoid of any ounce of empathy that you can not see at all, how desperate someone would be in a situation where they were going to lose a 2nd parent to alcohol. You cant understand the sheer desperation of a son completely at a loss and trying to show his mother what is obvious to everyone else? I would be very worried about they type of person who couldn't grasp this in the slightest. Agreeing and understanding don't have to be the same thing.

Fucking hell gta your poor DP.

You 're right I have zero compassion for someone who would behave like that. How could it possibly help? What did it achieve? How did it make all the other customers feel? It was completely inappropriate behaviour

Dont be obtuse, Im talking about compassion for him as a child of an alcoholic and what he has experienced. No-ones saying it was designed to "help." or "achieve" anything. It was an act of desperation, an impulsive loss of control act based on his emotional processing of everything his Mum has ever put him through, his love for her, not wanting her to die but feeling helpless to get her to admit she has an alcohol problem. You seriously dont get that? At all?

@bluelady For the love of God, read the updates from the OP before you write something so nasty!

bluelady I want you to imagine your mother is discreetly hanging herself at a restaurant.

None of the other diners have noticed, or will notice.

What would your priority be? Cutting her down, or making sure not to disrupt the other customers' dining experience?

Don't think about whether this could actually happen, think about how you would feel if such a situation was possible.

OP, to you and DP. I really feel for the poor guy and doing something wrong when he's obviously at the end of his tether and terrified for his mother's life is hardly something that justifies some of the unpleasant comments on here.
From what I know about addiction, one absolute is that nobody can really help if the addict themselves doesn't want to change. For that reason, maybe withdrawing from the situation is going to be best for you, DP and the baby. On the other hand, a carefully supervised visit with the baby seems to me unlikely to do any harm if you/DP can stand it. I have a dear friend whose grandmother was alcoholic for many years and eventually died of it and she loved her very much in spite of this.

using your child as a form of coersion against their grandmother is just unnecessary and only serves to hurt her.

It is protecting their child, which is completely necessary.

My own limited experience of dealing with an addict is that there comes a point when you have to step away and concentrate on healing yourself instead. Unfortunately you can't shock or otherwise force an addict to change. In your situation op, I would step away from mil, concentrate on your own family, while still supporting the younger siblings living through mil's alcoholism.

You poor love and your poor poor dh. I think you are right to take a step back because she has to make the decision. It’s a terrible disease. However you are right you have to protect your baby and you sound a great support to your dh

@gta I felt I had to comment again because I just wanted to reiterate you and DP are not in the wrong. Addiction isn't as cut and dry as people think unless they have had experience and I just want you to stay strong. You sound lovely and DP sounds and wits end (understandably). There is lots of good advice on here if you sift through some of the more judgemental posts and I hope you take some comfort from some of the words of wisdom.

I actually remember thinking that I would descend into madness at one point when things were really bad, it took over my every waking thought. I would swing from the frustration of being desperate to help and not wanting anything to do with the situation.

Make it clear that when she is ready to ask for your help, you will support her. Until then you can't risk your family's life being turned upside down.

You've tried, that's all you can do.

Really really want this to resolve itself for you OP x

Op I hope that you and your DH are ok. I think there are a lot of people on here who have never had a close relationship with an alcoholic.

With our alcoholic family member, we have reluctantly not been able to have our children around her, we would be ok if she did not always want to pick them up and play, but as pps have said it can be very hard to judge when an alcoholic is truly sober or not, it is very hard to tell them no when they have been drinking, and it's just not safe.
The bottles on the table thing was probably humiliating and not necessarily helpful but I sympathise with the desperation. It's so hard to see someone you love choose to kill themselves.

Whatever you choose, I hope things improve.
I'd really really suggest that your DH and maybe you also attend Al-Anon meetings for loved ones of alcoholics, and maybe his siblings also. Are any of DH's siblings still under 18? If so, you should also contact NSPCC or social services, this is too much for younger children and they need support.

I don’t see what benefit there is to anyone letting this woman have any kind of contact with the baby.

After everything she has put her family through they don’t owe her anything and should withdraw for the sake of their own wellbeing, because she’s made it very clear that she doesn’t want to seek help for her addiction therefore nobody can do anything for her.

And the baby is just a baby. It isn’t going to know that it’s not got a relationship with its grandparent who is just a drunk anyway.

And for the people crying “buuuuuuut addiction is an illness, anyone who goes against that lacks compassion,” the woman consumed 33 bottles of vodka in ten days. So desperate is she for her fix that she lies to her friends, her family, she has driven her son to breaking point and she has under-aged children who have to live in this environment. It’s this kind of compassion talk which enables alcoholics to remain alcoholics.

Yes, addiction is an illness. But continuing to drink rather than seeking help when faced with the prognosis of death is still a choice.

The family and friends are just as much victims here, except they didn’t choose to be there, they however can choose to walk away and are not wrong for doing so.

If the addict chooses to get help then more power to them. If however they choose not to and loose all their family and friends as a result then they have no-one to blame but themselves.

If that makes me uncaring then so be it.

You and your DH are being controlling.

Yes, she seems to have a drink problem and you can offer her help but not threaten her. There's no reason why she can't see her grandchild when sober, with you or your DH there too.

Oh OP. How sad for you and your DP. I’m so sorry you’re going through this.

This woman has an illness. Sometimes tough love is a necessity, but my concern is more about your DP’s younger siblings. Can social services be called? It doesn’t sound like this woman, nor her ex, are fit to look after themselves, let alone their children.

As for not having her involved with your DC, I don’t think you’re BU. Even though we’re fortunate not to have alcoholism in our family, DH and I have an agreement that nobody who is drunk handles our DC (my grandmother and MIL are fond of a drink on family occasions). They could so easily be dropped or something.

Best of luck with everything. I hope she gets the help she needs soon.

I've written about this before.

My brother is an alcoholic. I 'rescued' him and put him in rehab countless times. Each time he relapsed. Because my help was enabling him. I finally, for the sake of my own mental health (and his), had to cut him out of my life because of his drinking. I told him that he was NOT to call me if he had been drinking, I would NOT help him in any way. That HE had to make the choice to get sober and HE had to do the hard work, not me. It was the hardest thing I ever did and nearly broke me. But he hit rock bottom and when I wouldn't answer the phone, he ended up calling the police. He was admitted to our local psych ward on a 5150 (I'm in the US) which I assume is the same as being 'sectioned'. He was there for 10 days without contact from me on the advice of his treatment team (and my counselor). Then a further 60 days of out patient treatment. He called me at his 30 days of sobriety mark and I took his call. This was in 2015 and he's been sober since then.

Your MiL must rise or fall on her own. It's the toughest decision your DP will ever have to make. But as long as she knows that someone will continue to 'come to her rescue' she has no incentive to get sober. And that if her choice is to continue drinking or even to die, it will NEVER be his responsibility or ever his fault.

One of the things I learnt, and your DP must realize is:
He didn't cause this.
He can't control this.
He can't cure this.

Do the best you can for his sister. Remember that alcoholism does run in families and that there can be a genetic component. She is young and even though she is seeing the worst of what drinking can do, she's still vulnerable to peer pressure to drink.

Wishing you strength.

Red red - you have clearly never lived with an alcoholic. Sshh now with your silly talk.

I think you are being a bit mean to stop her from seeing your baby. Alcoholism is an illness. Obviously being constantly drunk will affect your MIL’s ability to look after a child and you should never leave your baby alone with her, but it doesn’t make her a bad person. She certainly doesn’t deserve to never see her son’s baby. And if your plan is to make her quit drinking by withholding contact, it won’t work. You could ever make her worse because she might feel like her family are leaving her. Who knows, she might see your baby and think to pack the drinking in herself. She needs some sympathy in my opinion. Yes it is self destructive, but it’s an addiction.

😂

I'm sure your DH is also suffering and at the end of his tether. But for some reason, some posters think he doesn't deserve sympathy. I wonder why.