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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

AIBU or are we all going to be trapped in the UK from next March?

912 replies

Clarissalarissa · 11/03/2018 15:23

So, Ryanair and Thomas Cook are inserting clauses in their booking terms to say that if your flight abroad doesn't go ahead because of Brexit that's your problem. No doubt others will follow. If any deal is ever done, to allow planes to fly, it is bound to be a lot more expensive than it is now.

Is everyone planning many years of UK-only holidaying?

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kerryweaverscrutch · 11/03/2018 17:24

It’s interesting how in real life I hear nothing about trans or Brexit amongst everyone I know and yet on here it’s as though Armageddon is around the corner. I’m starting to feel suspicious

Yes, it's almost as if its a chat forum, specifically designed for people to talk to each other about issues, and without the difficulties of talking to people in real life!

So suspicous that people would actually use it for its designated purpose...Hmm

crunchymint · 11/03/2018 17:25

Yes ,y DP works in a contracted out arm of the NHS. And already sees shortages of staff because some migrants are going home. The NHS relies on migrants.

Helmetbymidnight · 11/03/2018 17:27

It’s interesting how in real life I hear nothing about trans or Brexit amongst everyone I know and yet on here it’s as though Armageddon is around the corner. I’m starting to feel suspicious.

Lol.

Imagine being a brexitteer who wants 'control of our borders' and then being appalled at the idea that travel will be more complicated and expensive post-brexit. Its brilliant.

KennDodd · 11/03/2018 17:27

Not travel related, but Brexit related.

I meet business people all day every day in the course of my job, every type of employer you can imagine. Brexit very rarely comes up as it's not relevant to why I'm there but when it does come up with exporters it is met with universal pessimism. They have been really worried and just now customers abroad have started talking about similar conditions and terms of sale on contracts because they don't know the regulatory environment they will be in after March 2019.

And yet so many people still seem to think Brexit is great (not any exporters I've ever met though) maybe somebody who thinks this can come on here and talk me down because I'm really worried about it. Proper facts though, not just 'oh, it'll all be great' real reasons how it will be fine.

SleepFreeZone · 11/03/2018 17:28

Talk I obviously don’t, you’re right!

Helmetbymidnight · 11/03/2018 17:30

Ok, so you don't talk with people who are interested in politics, current affairs, future of the nation. And you find people who do...are what? 'Suspicious'?

crunchymint · 11/03/2018 17:31

I think many who support Brexit overestimate the importance of Britain to other countries.

Sara107 · 11/03/2018 17:31

It's not to do with visas, it's to do with the regulation of the air travel industry. At the moment, air travel within the EU is all governed by the same body and until a new arrangement is made UK airlines won't be able to fly within the EU. As there is no sign of any plans for the new arrangement, the airlines are starting to get a bit nervous about the situation and covering themselves from too much liability. Ryanair has been banging on about this since referendum day, but because their head office is Ireland their flights within the EU apart from the UK will be unaffected. EasyJet opened a new sub headquarters in Vienna to help their European operations keep going as well. This isn't 'Remoaners' being hysterical, it is businesses being unable to assume business as usual in the absence of any certainty, and the flights are scheduled a long time in advance.

Sheasksmehowthecatsbeen · 11/03/2018 17:31

I actually think people are going to have a shock next March if (when?) we crash out without a deal. I won't be booking any sort of holiday and I'll be warning all my friends and family who voted Remain to be very cautious. The rest of them won't listen anyway, so let them put their money where their mouth is.

And Brexit comes up all the time amongst the people I know. It's only the Leavers who firmly don't mention it.

Havanananana · 11/03/2018 17:33

Meanwhile back at the original topic, there is indeed a risk that aircraft will be unable to fly between the UK and the EU (and anywhere else that requires flying over an EU country) after March 2019. IF there is no new Open Skies Agreement, then planes cannot fly, as there will be no legal basis on which they could fly.

This is not my personal opinion, nor some hysterical 'remoaner' comment, but the considered opinion of BALPA, the organisation that represents British airline pilots, who you would hope are not given to hysterics when they are sitting at the sharp end of the plane you're in.

blog.balpa.org/Blog/October-2017/Brexit-options-explained

Helmetbymidnight · 11/03/2018 17:35

It's only the Leavers who firmly don't mention it.

Exactly. But then most of them finally sussed out that they voted to make us all poorer and life far more difficult.

It's the ones who still haven't realized that yet that I find amazing.

Itinerary · 11/03/2018 17:35

O'Leary? Says it all.

wictional · 11/03/2018 17:35

Don’t worry; I hear Cornwall and the Lakes are so nice to go to! Something about them being able to protect their coastlines and national parks better with the money given to them by the EU for that purpose.

Taking our tourist hotspots back!

AgnesSkinner · 11/03/2018 17:39

And Brexit may well solve the third runway problem for Heathrow.

kerryweaverscrutch · 11/03/2018 17:40

O'Leary? Says it all

You do realise he is far from the only one talking about this, and it is an actual real issue?

Sheasksmehowthecatsbeen · 11/03/2018 17:42

Christ, I'd love to have the confidence that this shower of shite government can sort everything out in time. Where does that come from? looks around at actual reality . Nope, not from there.

starzig · 11/03/2018 17:43

No. Prices might go up a bit but probably less than £50 A head on common European flights.

MinnieMousse · 11/03/2018 17:44

All those blindly saying "We travelled to Europe before the EU, we can carry on again" are completely ignoring the fact that the framework in which we fly has completely changed since then. Everyone else is remaining under the current framework, we are the only ones planning to leave it.

The aviation framework between countries was completely different and less free prior to the Open Skies agreement. Aviation regulation and the management of routes ("flying rights") was done bi-laterally between different nations. The Open Skies agreement created the right for EU carriers to access any routes in the EU, as well as the right for cross-border mergers of airline companies. The EU has also negotiated an Open Skies agreement with the USA/Canada, so transatlantic travel will also be affected. Negotiations over flying rights to the US routes have already begun with the US offering the UK a less favourable arrangement than that which we currently enjoy as EU members.

If the UK does not remain signed up to the Open Skies agreement, it falls back on previous bi-lateral agreements where they still exist. These are more limited in the rights they give to domestic carriers to access flying routes. For example, many of the smaller airports that airlines such as Ryanair use were not subject to these earlier agreements.

The situation is also complicated by the fact that previous bi-lateral agreements were also largely negotiated on the basis of domestic carriers. Many of these carriers have now merged under EU rules, eg British Airways/Iberia/Aer Lingus are now all part of the International Airlines Group.

For anyone interested in the technicalities, some of the legal firms specialising in aviation have done briefing papers, eg here

Who knows what is going on behind the scenes, but I think the airlines and travel companies are wise to protect themselves against any eventuality. Burying your head in the sand is a risky strategy.

JassyRadlett · 11/03/2018 17:53

I’m starting to wonder if all these hysterical Brexit threads are started by Russian bots to destabilise the U.K.

We’ve come to a pretty sorry pass when discussions the implications of possible future policy models (no deal next March) can be described as ‘destabilising the UK’.

Hysteria, eh?

PuntasticUsername · 11/03/2018 17:56

"And Brexit may well solve the third runway problem for Heathrow."

Yes. Just as one might solve an ingrowing toenail by cutting one's leg off.

Helmetbymidnight · 11/03/2018 17:59

Apparently, that's all hysteria and utter bollocks @MinnieMousse - and I imagine brexitteers on this thread currently work in the airline industry and feel well-versed to dismiss all you've said.

It's only O'Leary who's worried about Brexit - and most economists, business leaders, academics, civil service, NHS workers, John Major, Ken Clarke, the Millibands, Tony Blair, Nick Clegg, Anna Soubry, Heseltine, etc, etc, - but they're all just hysterical remoaners who know fuck all compared to the 'real people' in this country.

Helmetbymidnight · 11/03/2018 18:01

I’m starting to wonder if all these hysterical Brexit threads are started by Russian bots to destabilise the U.K.

Brexit is what the Russians wanted, you did know that, right?

BishopBrennansArse · 11/03/2018 18:06

I think many who support Brexit overestimate the importance of Britain to other countries.

This, absolutely. Why are we so arrogant?

We're a poxy miniscule island that relies heavily on imports nowadays whilst having very little manufacturing industry left to trade with.

We need alliances not to push others away.

Talkstotrees · 11/03/2018 18:08

It’s okay folks starzig knows - all will be sorted in time & flights will go up by about £50 per head. Do you work for DExEU starzig? Thanks for the insider info.

crunchymint · 11/03/2018 18:17

And "only" £50 per head would kill a lot of the weekend flight route to European cities. Lots of people who fly out for a few nights will be put off by such a price hike.