To think Waitrose won't sell many gender neutral mother's day cards, because mothers are WOMEN?

[AskBasil]

We see your absurd virtue-signalling

Every single human being who has ever been born throughout the whole of history, has been born of woman. Not man, not non-binary, not super-latte-snowflake-aromantic: WOMAN.

I know some men feel really sad about this. I know that some of them had such sadz about it, that it led to a 6,000 year long tantrum, where they defined women as less human than them, defective men, immature versions of humans and enslaved us and categorised us as chattels and property. And now they are attempting to de-categorise us altogether, to pretend that as a category, we don't exist. We're just a feeling.

But they won't succeed, because everyone sane knows, that however you identify, whatever you feel about your body, if you've given birth to a child, you are a female. Because biology is real and "woman" is more than just a feeling in a man's head. Or dick.

Happy mother's day.

Um, I think it was you bellasuewow who attacked other women with your "handmaiden" jibe.

Don’t attack other women just because it is easier than making yourself a target of men.

Objecting to your clichéd and lazy usage of “handmaiden” isn’t attacking you.

If it doesn't actually affect you, why on earth do you care what someone's bit of paper says? Or who gave it to them? Or why they gave it to them? Do want to make it so you have to pass a test to 'earn' your card? Or should we just live and let live?

I'm friends with a gay, male couple. One of them has 3 dcs, their kids have always celebrated both mothers and fathers day with them. Purely because their mother isn't in their lives (( prefers drugs )) and their dad's have taken on both roles.

They're lucky kids.

Loads of people get their mum's stuff on fathers day because their dad's fucked off and mum's all they have. I don't see the issue with it being the other way around.

See the light and read about this issue

That's very religious language you're using there, bellasuewow. You sound like you're trying to sell your ideas on faith, rather than reason.

I take it that you didn't get the Mother's Day present you wanted then @AskBasil

Men seem to have a much more pragmatic stance i.e. they won't give a fuck.

I know far more about this 'issue' than a lot of the posters joining in on the histrionics on threads like this bellasue.

To be fair to the posters outraged about this I googled Karen pollock. I had to google ‘Karen pollock Mother’s Day’ to get anything to come up. Guess what google returned? Stories form the sun, the times and the mail with a quote from Karen Pollock along the line of ‘to me Mother’s day feels more inclusive as anyone can be mothering’. This is a complete non story. No where that I can find from google has this woman called for Mother’s Day to be renamed. This is the same sentiment that a lot of posters agree with. That you don’t actually have to have given birth to someone to be in a mothering role. Perhaps if you go digging on Twitter you find some people calling for the renaming of Mother’s day (half of whom is suspect are trolls anyway with no genuine intentions). But if you go digging on Twitter you can find literally anything. I’m afraid some of you have shown what you truly are here. Total bigots that are prepared to jump on a complete non story (clue should have been its the sun) with the sole purpose of trans bashing. I hope you’re ashamed of yourselves. No wonder the OP had a major flounce. Imagine people rallying against yet another anti trans thread on MN?

In fact, having finally waded through the inaccurate reporting the full quote from Karen was that we should return to the traditional ‘Mothering Sunday’ instead of using ‘mothers day’ because ‘Mothering Sunday feels more inclusive as anyone can be mothering’. Shock horror, someone wants to return to the traditional name of the day! It just goes to show how shoddy rags like the sun and mail will use parts of quotes to completely fabricate a story. I think we’d all do well to remember that. It’s a bit of a shame that the Times reporting is that crap as I think people tend to expect a bit more but it’s doesn’t surprise me at all given he ownership.

It's not about being anti trans at all. I wholly support the right of people who have been medically diagnosed and undergone full transition to live and be respected as a member of the opposite sex to the one they were born biologically. I just think it would be nice to have a day in which mothers, who are women are celebrated, without having to accommodate the feelings of men. Because this isn't about them. I don't want to deny men a father's day and I don't need cards to accommodate me on such a day, because it is about celebrating male parenting.

I know this seems like a fuss about nothing to lots of posters and if it wasn't set in a back drop of women's rights going backwards, thrn I would agree with you. But when you start looking, it's impossible to unsee the ways in which female lives and achievements are treated as not important and how women are expected to accommodate everybody else's wishes. That expectation isn't really expected of men in return.

When papers such as the Sun generate such headlines about a group and people then start threads on social media in response to them, you've got to wonder what the agenda is.

Still, it's not like the Sun has a history of generating anger against groups, is it......I am surprised the Daily Mail didn't do this story. Followed by a column from one of their commentators. All attempting to influence public opinion

I just think it would be nice to have a day in which mothers, who are women are celebrated, without having to accommodate the feelings of men

Again - and no one has seemed to answer this - what kind of trans person would want this card and who would give it to them and when?

I bet these cards are on sale TODAY. And tomorrow. Because these cards are for anyone to give to someone who they appreciate.

I wholly support the right of people who have been medically diagnosed and undergone full transition to live and be respected as a member of the opposite sex to the one they were born biologically

And guess what - a child would give them a Mother's day card. Not this card. Or possibly a Father days card. On Fathers day.

Oh - and can you point to any evidence that this has got anything to do with trans people calling for Mother's Day to be renamed?

Rumpled, 'Mothering Sunday' in the traditional sense is obsolete - we are not a wholly religious nation anymore and we aren't all working 7 days a week with no time off to return to our home church. Which is why mothering sunday came about in the first place.

If we do make it an all inclusive celebration of parenting, because mothering can only be done by women, will we cancel father's day? Or will male parenting still get a day to be acknowledged and celebrated?

Personally, I like the two to be separate, so that we both get the lie in both contributions can be appreciated.

Kalapattar it was in the mail too, surprise surprise. I actually think Karen’s comment had little to do with trans people and more to do with the fact that lots of kids are raised by step/foster/adoptive/grandparents and ‘Mothering Sunday’ is traditional and far better for all those families than ‘Mother’s Day’. I think people have assumed that because Karen is a transwoman she couldn’t possibly just be making a general comment because all comments trans people make are clearly just to push some kind of trans agenda and piss off ‘terfs’ because trans people are clearly 100% defined by being trans 100% of the time.

That's kind of the point kalapattar. A genuine transperson would be happy to receive a card with mum or dad. I don't believe that the very small number of genuine trans people are represented by this very vocal group of TRAs, who seem to have co-opted the word for their own agenda. It's the pressure those people being objected to, the ones insisting on self ID and their rights to have everything that women have, irrespective of how that impacts women, not the people quietly going about their own lives.

I think people have assumed that because Karen is a transwoman she couldn’t possibly just be making a general comment because all comments trans people make are clearly just to push some kind of trans agenda and piss off ‘terfs’ because trans people are clearly 100% defined by being trans 100% of the time

I think you've hit the nail on the head.

Well Mother’s Day is always on a Sunday and lost of people still refer to it as Mothering Sunday. Father’s Day has long been open to single parent mothers, lots of kids give their mum a Father’s Day card too. Lots of people are scornful of fathers day anyway as just another commercial opportunity, I’m sure it wasn’t even a thing when I was a kid and I’m not that old. However there is a need for both as we move away form everyone being in a traditional family. And as we’ve pointed out, this card will likely be on sale for Father’s Day too.

A genuine transperson would be happy to receive a card with mum or dad. I don't believe that the very small number of genuine trans people are represented by this very vocal group of TRA

Ummm. Where is the evidence that people are calling for Mother's day to be renamed?

Any calls in the media? Any articles in The Guardian?

or is it merely a quote from the Sun, the TImes or the Mail?

Where are the TRAs that want Mother’s day to be renamed though? Outside of Twatter, because anyone can say anything there, it doesn’t actually mean they are mounting any kind of RL campaign.

It's not about launching a public campaign, more about the way in which women are constantly expected to share everything that belongs to us, in a way that men are not. It's insidious, rather than overt.

If these cards remain on sale during father's day too, then great. I still don't see the need sonce plenty of cards already exist to acknowledge the contributions of grandparents/step parents etc. Personally I don't know any families (single parent or otherwise) where mothers get celebrated on father's day. Can't see the point so long as both days continue to exist.

But when you start looking, it's impossible to unsee the ways in which female lives and achievements are treated as not important and how women are expected to accommodate everybody else's wishes.

I'm not getting it, can you explain how any woman's live or achievements are being undermined by cards that don't say 'mother' being available for Mother's Day?

Surely you recognise that families come in different shapes and sizes and the fact that some people might want to celebrate a relationship that isn't with a mother on Mother's Day, has no impact on the wider world, whatsoever?

As an aside, I wouldn't consider The Guardian to be a better/more reliable news source than The Mail. All media has its own agenda.

I don’t even consider the sun or the mail as a ‘news’ source tbh, so the guardian would win on that one as at least what they print usually has at least some basis in reality.

I did look at the Daily Mail yesterday, [shameface]. They also threw in their outrage at the two mum/both mums/to my mothers on Mother's Day cards, making their agenda broader and clearer.