AIBU to think Mumsnet need to revise their talk guidelines?

[abeautifulmess]

I have reported a number of threads recently and the mumsnet response has been 'we don't allow posts that break our talk guidelines' and nothing has been done when the whole thread has been attacking a particular (and vulnerable) group.

AIBU to question these guidelines and how they are applied?

The talk guidelines already do cover threads/posts attacking vulnerable groups though - I've seen threads deleted because of racism etc.

What in particular are you referring to? If you have a grievance its probably best to be up-front about it, thus avoiding a thread full of hilarious whataboutery about the marginalisation of people who drive a 4x4 or have "mum hair"

@greensleeves that's why I suggested maybe it is about how they are applied

@perendinate the trans community - which I realise might not be a popular group to support on mumsnet at the moment, but as I understand it 'gender reassignment' is a protected characteristic

What I find bizarre about MN rules is that they forbid personal attacks, but somehow the use of words such as "you sound like" apparently makes them absolutely fine. Hence you can't say "You're a fucking idiot" but you are apparently free to say "You sound like a fucking idiot." In terms of what they're trying to achieve, I really don't see what the difference is.

If you are talking about the hate-filled, scaremongering, bigoted anti-trans threads I completely agree.

Are they attacking or questioning? I've mainly seen the latter although a lot of mumsnet posters don't seem able to tell the difference .

There seems to be a total trans obsession on here. It’s bizarre and tiresome. I look at the thread titles and just think to myself “who the hell cares?”.

I do appreciate the need for a space for discussion about many of the topics that these threads cover, but perhaps they could be redirected to a specific part of the forum or repetition of the same topics in quick succession could be moderated better

Yeah odd that the feminism boards are interested in issues affecting feminism! I'd love to know what else you think about threads you don't read!

@greenmagpie I think the fine line between the two is so subtle and subjective that that is an unacceptable excuse

Sorry, posted at the same time. I agree with you. I also hate the way those threads have taken over the feminism boards so that I cannot use them. And I hate the way they personally insult anyone who doesn't agree with their opinion. As you say, those posts don't get taken down either. It's bullying behaviour! It should not be welcomed on any social media platform.

abeautifulmess If you could start by clearly and unambiguously defining 'the trans community' that might help (Not being snarky - it's part of what is being discussed)

Are they attacking or questioning? I've mainly seen the latter although a lot of mumsnet posters don't seem able to tell the difference hmm.

I would absolutely agree that some posters say very unpleasant things

But those posts are usually reported and deleted

@greenmagpie maybe we could talk by PM or on another thread as I don't really want to derail this one

Watching with interest.

Ooo they've already turned up! Apparently because we disagree we can't tell the difference between questioning and attacking, and we don't read the threads. Here we go again!

@Rufus but I don't think it is just about saying unpleasant things. The 'questioning' that seems to be deemed acceptable simply wouldn't be for other protected characteristics

It's the op here who says they can't tell the difference between questioning and attacking. Lack of reading comprehension and assuming bad faith is why these threads turn into bunfights

I think MN is walking a fine line between respecting a protected characteristic and allowing legitimate debate of what is, undoubtedly, an enormous and complex issue for everyone, and especially for women.

I'm not a believer in #nodebate, on any issue. It's childish and unhelpful. But I have seen MNHQ post multiple times on those threads to reassure posters that they will delete any posts that break the Talk Guidelines.

Honest question then : is asking you to define 'trans community' offensive or attacking?

@greenmagpie I didn't say I couldn't tell the difference. I said the difference can be very subtle. And so I feel often something that is attacking is dismissed as merely questioning

At no point does my quote say that there are not attacking posts

I just confirmed that there are attacking posts

But i have mainly seen the questioning ones

Attacking posts should be reported and deleted

@greenmagpie no. And I didnt say it was. It just isn't why I started this thread.

Where are the threads attacking trans identified people? I've never seen any attacking them? Just querying self id etc, that's not attacking, unless you want to shut down discussion which I'm sure is not your intention. Definitely not.

And posts where attacks are made are, rightly, deleted.