AIBU to think Mumsnet need to revise their talk guidelines?

[abeautifulmess]

I have reported a number of threads recently and the mumsnet response has been 'we don't allow posts that break our talk guidelines' and nothing has been done when the whole thread has been attacking a particular (and vulnerable) group.

AIBU to question these guidelines and how they are applied?

@Valentinesfart I have never said anything about whether I can definite the group or not. I didn't even say it shouldn't be discussed. My question concerns whether the same application of the talk guidelines is used for all groups - in this case trans

Yes but what group is that? Transexuals?

Transvestitites?

Gender fluid police officers who are sometimes women and sometimes male?

Autogynophiles?

These are come under "trans" now and that's the fault of TRAs that transexuals are now in the same group as "perv who likes to wank in his wife's underwear"

@SEsofty whilst this discussion has taken a trans focus my original post was about whether all groups are treated fairly in how the talk guidelines are applied

Have you any examples op? I agree that there have been a handful of rather tasteless posts, not entire threads though.

as I understand it 'gender reassignment' is a protected characteristic

It is.

However, I have never seen a thread (or posts) allowed to stand where they have attacked people (as a group) who have had gender reassignment.

What I have seen is the questioning & attacking of the ideology behind self ID, and people (as a group) who expect other people to accept & play along with the illusion that they are women when the have not undergone (or are undergoing) gender reassignment.

YANBU. The transphobia on this website is rife and awful.

I think the problem is that are some women who genuinely feel cis. SO if the wording changes to mean "anyone who feels like a woman^ you are still covered.

For the rest of us who never have felt lady gender but who are too old to think "Non binary" would be a good idea, we aren't happy with being told out gender matches our sex. It doesn't. And we are still part of a vulnerable group AND are pissed off the language has changed that we no longer count as women.

Why do you have no empathy for us?

Obviously you don't understand the guidelines as MN apply them. Feel free to leave if any posts upset you and stop reporting threads that MN think are fine.

a protected characteristic does NOT mean it is illegal to criticise a person that has one.

Do people not understand this?

Sex is a protected characteristic.
Does anyone think criticising women is illegal?!!

YABU. If you see posts or threads that are beyond the pale report them.

Also worth knowing op, that there are a number of trans people on most of the trans related threads who agree that biology is fact and the subject needs discussing and questioning. Their viewpoints are always extremely interesting and I for one really enjoy their input and they haven't been attacked once.

No one is anti trans on mn. Not a single person.

I also hate the way those threads have taken over the feminism boards so that I cannot use them

What an odd thing to say - it's a public board, anyone can start a thread about whatever they like

@ellieme how would I know if MN think they are fine unless are report them - presumably there are some posts that they don't think are fine once brought to their attention

I have also not seen any trans hate threads. I have seen some individual posts being deleted, but no covens mounting a war against trans.

fWiW I think that MN is doing a good job on this, and has provided us with a safe space to talk about things.

It’s a particularly female curse that we have to be ‘nice’ and pussy foot around. Most of the discussions spring from delevopments that will harm us and our sons and daughters. They come from concerns about the erosion of our rights and the harm being done to children.

However, if a woman on Twitter or any other social network asks if there is a thing as a ‘lady penis’ she gets sent a photograph of a woman being burned alive.
Or told she will be forced to put a penis in her mouth until she chokes. Or told she will be raped. Murdered.
Or told her uterus will be ripped out.

We are not on a level playing field. Women must shut up and put up it. So, I’m sorry. I value MN and am very grateful to it for allowing us to have somewhere to speak where we are not threatened and silenced.

@ladyballs that is the whole point of my question. I was wondering whether other people felt that the talk guidelines were applied fairly across threads. I do report when I think I need to

Carry on reporting anything you think breaches them, and HQ will carry on deleting anything they think are inappropriate.

If you've reported threads that haven't been deleted, then clearly they don't agree with you.

This is one of the few places online where issues arising from self ID and threats posed to women by activists (NOT trans people; the rabid activists) can be discussed. Why would you want to censor that?

With the flotsam and jetsam floating in from the Daily Mail, it is hardly surprising that transphobic threads have become a big hit on MN.

This is a pity because there is a need for meaningful debate on the issue.

I totally agree about the anti trans threads but no doubt they'll all be along in no time to shout us down

I think MN used to be witty and hard hitting, now it's just an opportunity for some posters to be extremely rude and take part in online bullying of often vulnerable and upset posters.

MN have made it clear from other poster threads that they do not agree with the TERFy (TRA words not ours) stance but have graciously let us get on with it because as a PP has said women speaking freely is important and rare.

As FB and Twitter will get you threats from "respectable" tras to "choke on my dick" I prefer to stay here having sensible discussions with the women that are actually affected by all of this.

WHen someone can show me a "vulnerable person" actually in any way being harmed by women on MN talking about the law, then I'll give it up. Until maybe work on shutting up those women asking others to choke on their dick?

I'm currently being deleted as I post now for pointing out with facts why a thread is completely fictitious by the way. Because the troll is reporting me. Lovely.

And I hate the way they personally insult anyone who doesn't agree with their opinion by asking questions about the logic of a statement?

Thanks to everyone who has replied to this post. I think in retrospect (and following the discussion on here), my original post wasn't quite worded correctly. I am not in anyway trying to suggest that there shouldn't be discussion of important issues; in fact I specifically didn't mention trans in the post as I was more interested in whether all groups were treated fairly. Maybe 'attacking' was the wrong word. I mean more a pervasive anti trans feeling that doesn't seem to move discussion on (hence my suggestion up post about a specific area for these discussions or moderating how many similar threads are started in quick succession).

YABU

MNHQ, thank you for providing a space where women can discuss their genuine concerns over the ramifications of Self I.D and recognising that the discussion of this potential minefield does NOT amount to ‘transphobia’ in anyway shape or form.
Trans people 100% deserve to live their lives however they see fit, and be accepted and celebrated in society! However, this should not be at the expense of another vulnerable group -women. Womens concerns matter, should not be dismissed and the only way to figure out or lobby for a compromise to suit everyone, is to discuss it openly.

No platforming is happening to Women everywhere, which is a disturbing repression of sensible debate! Thank God there is somewhere left that this important issue can be discussed.

Anyone know what MIT &TIM mean?