About other people’s children

[Curiousaboutchoices]

I sometimes feel like I am the only ‘strict’ parent around. We are surrounded by lovely people but many are what I would describe as permissive parents. This goes from the very extreme ‘Jane is just experimenting with gravity ’ when 3 year old Jane was deliberately throwing breakable items down a set of stairs, to a milder version whereby people consistently let their kids speak rudely, interrupt, scream and shout if they are ignored or don’t get their own way. Behaviour such as taking toys off another child, ignoring instructions/requests, being rude are often laughed at. Lots don’t restrict tv, screens or gaming, let their kids eat loads of sweets and chocolate in between meals, let their kids get up and down from the table, go to bed when they like, or put their kids to bed and then do nothing when they get back up again. This all makes play dates and sleepovers incredibly hard when all this is acceptable behaviour at home but not in my house.

No one would think it acceptable for an adult to behave like this. If I was unable to go out for dinner without getting up and wandering around people would think I was a little odd. I’m not talking toddlers, I’m talking KS1 and 2. And it’s a lot of the visitors to my house, not a small minority.

I can hear people saying already ‘not your kids, not your business’, which is right, but what these parents create is kids who are incredibly hard work outside the home. When kids stay over or come to play they are unable to cope with an adult not responding to their whims immediately, find it odd that I tell them not to help themselves my food cupboards or go into my bedroom, don’t like being told they have to sit still at a table to eat and can’t get up and down, etc.

Is this a nationwide modern phenomenon now, that children can do what they like or am I just living in a weird bubble?

My niece is a nightmare for play dates. Both my dd and niece same age.

She hides away on some console like iPad or tablet and doesn't interact with my dd or can't hear her for been engrossed in her game. She never wants to physically play. They are 8.
She also does this thing when you go to send them home and she refuses to leave and hides away under the bed and makes a big song and dance. You physically need to drag her out screaming. I fucking hate it.

I hate other people's kids generally. I hate that I'm not a children person and envy the open door, love sleepover type parents.

It's not until you do paydates and meet you find out that other parents parent totally different.

^Whilst I probably have the same parenting ethos as you, I wouldn't want myself or my DC to spend time with someone so judgemental*

Radio you are either being disingenuous or delightfully naive.

Everybody makes judgements about everybody else all the time.

We judge behaviour, manners, clothes, grooming, housekeeping, relationships, attitudes and opinions all day long.

Making judgements about each other is how we make friends, form relationships, evaluate situations and keep ourselves safe.

Not only that but we teach our children how to measure character and to form sound judgements about their friends, teachers etc.

Of course it’s not kind, polite or diplomatic to deliver unsolicited opinions on other people’s parenting or children but that doesn’t mean we don’t have them.

The OP is leading a nice anonymous discussion on MN, presumably she doesn’t stand at the school gate telling everyone else their children are ill mannered toe rags.

IRL you’d never know if she was judgemental or not.

I'm surprised at those who see so many lax parents around. I'm always surprised at the number of people treating small children in really quite a harsh fashion when I'm out and about.

Well said Thistlebell . We could do with a little honesty, we all judge.

Agree with thedog. One thing I cannot stand is really loud disciplining of kids in public. There's a lot of that around. Op I think you need to write a book about how to parent and I'll make sure not to buy it

Beyond - 13 in many cases. I work with teenagers and it is a common problem.

Well OP I think you live in a really bad area or your expectations are too high.

A vast majority of children who come here on play dates (I have two DSs 10 and 12 years old) are kind, polite, have a good sense of humour, are fun to be around. And as a childminder with 10 years experience, most parents are very persistent with insisting that their children be polite and well behaved. I think it's far from being some kind of country-wide social bad behaviour epidemic.

I would just imagine it's different priority everyone will patent differently some parents put huge emphasis on manners, some education, some outdoor/ sports and everything inbetween. It's also easier if you have children who are easier to deal with and happy to follow rules. My friends little boy is very headstrong and if she pulled him up on every single thing she would literally never stop so she does the main ones and is strict on hitting / lashing out ECT not saying rude things. He's is only 4 same as my little boy. I don't prioritise sitting at the table we live in a flat we sit with food on sofa and read books, we use sofa cushions to make dens, my son sleeps in my bed , guest are allowed in my bedroom. My main concerns are that he is kind and polite and happy and we have fun. He is a lovely little boy and fairly easy to parent some children are not and in my personal opinion pick your battles no child or adult is perfect. Now breaking things would be a no no for me but getting up from table doesn't bother me so I guess a lot of it will be different parents and different priority. If you want to remain friends with these people and your children be friends with their children you could always try meeting outside/ parks or soft plays ECT

Everybody makes judgements about everybody else all the time

Yes they do but it a different thing to silently judge and to post smug threads like this one.

For people who are struggle with their children's behaviour, how do you think it makes them feel?

And as for other children's behaviour affecting you.....so you have a choice of putting up with other children's behaviour in your home for say 3 hours at most on a very occasional basis...or don't invite them home. It's really a non-problem.

Thistle - love your last post, very true. Every single entry on this site involves some sort of judgement. Makes me laugh when people pull out the judgeypants accusation while sitting wearing a pair of their own.

And you’re right, I don’t give my views in real life unless people ask.

I’m am cross zzzz so you’re right and it seems with just cause. I’m not usually so, just got to the end of my tether. I’m taking my lead from those who refuse to put up with it and see where it leads.

Thanks for all the comments.

Dancer I didn’t read the OP as smug. I read it as she was feeling a little alone in her parenting views and looking for some common ground.

Of course these things are open to interpretation.

Thistle that’s exactly what I was doing. I was feeling quite alone in my views and I don’t feel like that now thanks to all your comments. Perhaps i am a little unlucky in terms of local parents and groups. But I’m certainly not smug and I think I’ve made it clear in my posts that neither my kids nor I are by any measure perfect.

And dancer we are a very sociable family. We have friends over all the time not just occasionally. Perhaps that’s the problem, but I love the idea of an open door. Just don’t like the attitude of many who walk through it.

Maybe we need to reduce that too but that seems a great shame.

I believe in giving children freedom as long as it doesn't impose on others freedom. Next time you have kids who are brought up with more freedom than your kids round your house- why don't you explain to them why you have whatever rule in place and why at your house you want them to follow them. If you treat them with respect I'm sure you'll find they respect you. Some kids are brought up to believe that they are deserve just as much as respect as adults and some are brought up to believe they should be 'put in their place' by adults. Obviously they respond differently to being treated with respect and not being treated with respect.

Your dc may not do the things you have mentioned in your op but I am sure they do things they are allowed to do at home and others aren’t and it will be up to other parents to enforce their rules for their house the same as it is for you. Other people say kids are a pain in the arse with few exceptions imo - even the ‘nice’ ones.
No doubt your children telling others that they must stay at the table or that too much screen time is bad for you isn’t particularly charming after a while for eg.

*other people’s kids

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/15/robots-schools-teaching-children-redundant-testing-learn-future

No point making little robots for a system that won't need them soon. I haven't read everything you've posted but I get the impression you want 'perfect and well behaved' children. It's not natural for people to be like that and why would you want children to all be the same cookie cut so called 'well behaved' humans. I'd rather have 'unruly' little individuals.

Children don't have to be robots to be polite. Mine have very strong views but I raise them to put their point forward respectfully and not act like an unruly dick.

We've had a couple of disastrous play dates where it's been clear other children have a very different upbringing and that's fine but they don't get invited back. My youngest 2 are 6 years old and their close friends are all lovely and welcome here anytime.

It's all very well raising "free spirits" (imo we're all free spirited just have learned how to put that across in a way that's suitable within society) but in my work place their are rules and hierarchy so anyone not able to handle that would be gone.

From the article Smoke linked to:

In the future, if you want a job, you must be as unlike a machine as possible: creative, critical and socially skilled.

I can’t speak for the OP but while my children are very well behaved they certainly aren’t “robots”.

This comes up time and time again on MN. Well behaved must equal characterless, boring, broken spirited robots.

And it’s nonsense.

My children are well behaved but think critically. They know how to follow rules but also how to politely challenge them.

They do what they are told but know how to construct an effective argument for an alternative course of action.

They can sit nicely in a restaurant, a classroom or on a visit to Great Auntie Jeanie but they also play sports, do crafts, play music, play computer games and engage in creative role play.

These things aren’t mutually exclusive.

Consiser what “socially skilled” means. It means understanding how to work effectively and happily with other people. It means working well within a team and learning to adapt to your circumstances.

I would argue that my children will find that considerably easier than the girl down the road who throws a massive tantrum every time she hears “no” and doesn’t know how to take turns.

But why do you assume that everyone else's kids want to work in such a rigid environment as yours? Your job sound like it will be replaced by robots in the future. Free spirits are the future because they can't be replaced by robots. I think you've found a good solution to your problem which probably suits you and the kids well to not invite them round as they probably don't want to be there either.

Shame you didn’t read my posts Smoken because they would tell you that your assumptions are wrong. My kids aren’t automatons - as I said before they challenge and debate rules and consequences within the safety of the family Home. We respect them justcas we expect them to respect us. We don’t shout, we reason. We explain reasoning for rules rather than impose with dogmatism. All I ask for is manners, not robots. I don’t think that’s asking a lot tbh.

And no, I don’t want unruly little individuals in my house. Nor ‘spirited’ ones, nor those that ‘take a bit longer’ to learn not to interrupt/shout/be polite. It’s not natural to enjoy that kind of company.

Thistle I wish you lived on my road. I’d love to invite you and your kids for tea.

Curious might as well keep all the robots together.

But what do you mean by well behaved? Respectful towards people who don't respect them because they're little? Just do as they're told by adults and never question why? I think that sounds pretty robotic to me.