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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be really surprised that UK women were able to get maternity leave & pay, and abortion rights?

137 replies

SonicVersusGynaephobia · 03/03/2018 11:50

I, of course, 100% think they should have them.

But women in the UK at the moment just seem so irrelevant. Women suffering seems to not matter to anyone in power.

Examples such as
-Still having a gender pay gap and equal pay issues.

-Trans Activism getting rid of all women-only spaces and services, many of which are needed for women's safety. Women not even being allowed to discuss this. Women who try being threatened with rape and murder, and no political party calling any of this out.

-Rape convictions. I mean holy fucking Christ, how awful is that Ulster Rugby rape trial that is going on at the moment? The way the victim is being treated is harrowing. The burden of proof the prosecution needs "guilty beyond all reasonable doubt", is just impossible in a 1:1 scenario, nevermind when there are 4 of them, and none of them even have to take the stand to give evidence in case they all trip each other up, because not one of their stories match Angry

-Lenient sentences for men convicted of serious domestic violence.

-Obstetrics and Gynaecology care - women being made to give birth without pain relief, getting poor pain relief afterwards, and being made to have a vaginal birth when they really don't want to. Being ignored when in labour. Then the issues they need to deal with afterwards, incontinence, pain, prolapses, sexual disfunction, etc.

-Welfare cuts massively disproportionately affecting women. Poorer women. And therefore children.

-Pathetic Child Maintenance Service and the loopholes that allow men to not bother.

There are others. These are just the few bothering me this morning.

So truly, I cannot believe how successful feminists a few decades ago were at getting us the rights that many people are still so angry about us having (eg abortions). I'm amazed they were able to get enough traction to have their voices heard, and actually listened to, and laws implemented to protect women, in spite of so many men being so, so against it.

I feel it would never happen today. Despite women apparently having it better than ever. I'm completely in awe of how they managed to get us the rights they did. I feel so inadequate in comparison, that my voice for protecting women is so ineffectual, no matter how I try.

OP posts:
Original poster
SonicVersusGynaephobia · 03/03/2018 11:53

I know that women elsewhere have it much, much worse.

OP posts:
MaceWindu · 03/03/2018 12:00

I agree. But I would hide before the trans activists arrive!

hibbledibble · 03/03/2018 12:15

I don't agree with what you have said. Most of it is your subjective opinions, not backed up by any objective evidence.

You may have had a bad experience with obstetric care, but I have had excellent experiences. In fact I work in obstetric care and do not recognise any of what you claim. We offer pain relief on demand, and it is in fact encouraged. Plenty of ceasarean sections for maternal request are also performed. Women are most definitely not ignored in labour either.

CavoliRiscaldati · 03/03/2018 12:17

I don't like the stand that women are poor little victims in this country, but I cannot disagree with your point about Obstetrics and Gynaecology care
It is absolutely shocking. Things are getting worst for everybody, but we pup up with unacceptable (lack of) care, so I feel sorry for any new mum.

SnibbleAgain · 03/03/2018 12:18

Medical inequality between men and women is well documented, plenty of studies around it.

Look at the vaginal mesh scandal. Any comment on that?

CavoliRiscaldati · 03/03/2018 12:20

We offer pain relief on demand, and it is in fact encouraged.
I would just point out that women are strongly encouraged to chose a birth center, which are entirely staffed by midwives - at least in my area, so there is NO option of getting an epidural there. Should you wish one, you would have to be transferred to the nearest hospital to find a anaesthetist. When the birth center is attached to the hospital, it's just a question of moving across building, but some centers are a drive away. Ideal for a woman in labour.

SnibbleAgain · 03/03/2018 12:21

Look at the heart attack death rates between men and women. Any comment on that?

I didn't have any pain relief when I was in labour (induced) until I got a spinal block with the EMCS. Not even a sniff of gas and air. I was in an awful lot of pain. What's one woman's story though? Men's stories are "evidence", women's are "anecdata" all too often.

hibbledibble · 03/03/2018 12:22

snibble can you quote any of those?

The NHS is universally underfunded, but obstetric care is relatively very well funded. Obstetric care is seen as a priority.

GinIsIn · 03/03/2018 12:22

Well, we have the maternity leave and pay we have now thanks to the EU, so that’s by no means a given in future.....

Birdsgottafly · 03/03/2018 12:22

Hibbledibbled likewise that's your unique experience and your experience of when you are on shift.

Women are, too often, ignored in Labour.

The Welfare and Social Care cuts have caused the Infant Mortality Rate to go higher. My City, Liverpool is one that this applies to. Children's illnesses have also increased.

There us evidence for everything that the OP has said.

Charities spoke out before every change, were ignored, then proved right.

SnibbleAgain · 03/03/2018 12:23

Just google hibble I'm not doing your research for you.

It's your area so I'm surprised that you haven't heard of the vaginal mesh scandal.

RoobieDoobie · 03/03/2018 12:24

Fenella . No we don't. I am so sick of people thinking this! Out provision in the uk is wholly down to our own government!

To be really surprised that UK women were able to get maternity leave & pay, and abortion rights?
YTho · 03/03/2018 12:25

I agree with op, also the high cost of child care I feel is another important issue.

SnibbleAgain · 03/03/2018 12:25

Fenella agree - I think that a big driver for many to leave the EU was around reduction of employee rights - small and medium sized (and probably big if we're honest) employers would far rather be able to hire and fire at will etc - have been articles for years even before Brexit about how employment law from EU "damages" British business.

Beetlejizz · 03/03/2018 12:25

There are many posters on here who report being denied pain relief, some of whom later went on to get it (even if only due to forceps or EMCS). None of this is to say there aren't many dedicated and skilled obsetric staff, but unfortunately that's not enough.

RoobieDoobie · 03/03/2018 12:25

In the uk you are entitled to up to 52 weeks and 9 months smp from the government. Nothing to do with the EU!

Alabama3 · 03/03/2018 12:26

being made to have a vaginal birth when they really don't want to.

just because you don't want a vaginal birth does not mean you should have a c section??

obviously if there is a medical need then you should be able to have one, however just wanting to not have a vaginal delivery is not a good reason

SnowBusinessLikeSlowBusiness · 03/03/2018 12:26

The thing about rape convictions is not simple though. Do you want people to go to prison when there is no objective evidence against them , when the case is not proved? Do you want people to lose their liberty on the word of one person? Because if you do that for rape cases you have to do it for all crimes, and where will be all be then?

I believe her. I hope they are convicted. But lets not pretend its simple.

Hidingtonothing · 03/03/2018 12:28

There've been numerous threads on here filled with women relating awful obstetric care hibble, your good experience doesn't negate or disprove others' bad ones unfortunately. OP isn't saying all care is substandard but it's a fact that it happens and to far more women than any of us would like to believe. If anything it's your opinion which is subjective, not OP's, just because it doesn't happen where you work doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Goldfishshoals · 03/03/2018 12:28

I work in obstetric care and do not recognise any of what you claim. We offer pain relief on demand

The hospital I gave birth in last year makes exactly the same claim. I even still have a leaflet going through all the pain relief options I could apparently choose from.

The reality was I was denied all pain relief except gas and air (despite repeated begging for anything for hours) and in the end even that was removed from me, the midwife wrenching the tube out from fingers before turning to her colleague to comment that she'd had to fight me for it.

SnibbleAgain · 03/03/2018 12:28

Roobie that minimum will no longer be protected for us.

If the economy goes to shit, it is always women who shoulder the bulk of the burden. Maternity leave is both expensive and inconvenient for companies. The protection will be gone.

CavoliRiscaldati · 03/03/2018 12:29

just because you don't want a vaginal birth does not mean you should have a c section??

of course you should! C-section are not the easy option some like to pretend they are, but some women had very good reasons to ask for one. Bloody hell,some people would have send back to cave times.

Beetlejizz · 03/03/2018 12:29

Au contraire alabama, it's an excellent reason. NICE, who undoubtedly know more about this than you do, say as much.

SnibbleAgain · 03/03/2018 12:31

Yes SnowBusiness lots of women, especially feminists, want for men to be sent to prison for ages on an accusation with no court or anything

Confused

Worboys, Reid, the children and women being groomed by gangs, our authorities have a shit record. They routinely disbelieved victims and missed loads of opportunities to take dangerous men out of circulation.

SnowBusinessLikeSlowBusiness · 03/03/2018 12:39

You didn't actually read the point I was responding to, did you? Or perhaps just misunderstood. Maybe read it again and think a little more.