‘Women who dress like slags cheapen the rest of us’.

[Eltonjohnssyrup]

Said by my mother who is as left wing as Trotsky, a Corbynista and a self identified feminist.

I did say to her at the time that I thought using the word ‘slag’ was wrong. But my sons were there at the time and although two of them are too young to understand I find it worrying they might internalise that kind of thing.

We have a fractious relationship anyway (she used to call me promiscuous as an older teenager because I’d had a snog and a grope). So I don’t want to cause a lot of friction. But I wonder if I should send her an email saying that isn’t acceptable.

I wouldn't call anyone a slag, whatever their appearance or behaviour. Female or male - anyone remember the 'medallion man' look with bleached hair, hairy chest on view and skin tight trousers?

My appearance goes from frumpy to vamp depending on occasion and audience, but unless I'm standing on a platform or accompanying a partner to an official function I'm not representing or putting a value on anyone but me.

IME the 'provocative' look is perceived to signal sexual availability and works very well for that with minimal effort; in a business environment however it reads as 'work is not the first thing on my mind'.

My mum confined her opinions to 'It pays to advertise' and I think she was correct insofar as appearance needs to match intention. I normally wear a suit to work.

Not it may well do.
But I choose not to portray myself in that way as I want to present myself to others in a way that I am taken seriously in the job market. My career area is heavily male and red nails for me would risk them seeing me as sexual, instead of professional. I do think for many people-mostly men-these things are quite black and white.
I choose to push myself forward through demonstrating my intelligence and not my looks. That is because I don't want any misogynistic comments or behaviours about my womanhood.
So it may say something about me but blonde hair low cut top painted nails and short skirt would mean I'd be laughed out of the workplace and receiving pervy looks at my breasts, being called 'love', and having to manage innuendos masked as 'banter'.
It may be different for you. My views are based on my experiences and observations.

Nail varnish? Seriously? I can’t believe there are people out there with such twisted, dated values.

Red nail varnish is highly sexualised in the media Elton. A French manicure not so much.

starlight, you saying things about women wearing red nail varnish are slags says more about you than it does about them.

I've never said the word slag other than to say I hate the word. Don't misrepresent my posts. Media does portray red lips and nails as sexualised, much more than any other colour makeup.
I don't wear it as I don't want to be judged by sex. As in, I want to be neutral not feminine as that would fuck my career as I wouldn't be taken seriously.
You taking meaning from my posts which aren't there is saying more about you than me.

I've never said the word slag other than to say I hate the word. Don't misrepresent my posts

Yes, you’ve said you don’t like the word. But then you’ve gone on to list what you think is slaggy. Clearly you do view these women as slags, even if you do dress it up as something else.

You taking meaning from my posts which aren't there is saying more about you than me.

Don't try to backtrack. This is what you said.

or those who dye their hair blonde and wear red lipstick and nail varnish, something which I can't take seriously or trust their intelligence.

But I would assume if a woman wanted to portray herself in that way she would also be of an attitude where she cannot take things seriously since all she would be judged on is her body and sexuality as opposed to true strengths such as intelligence, wisdom and respectability. It would seem like all she is bothered about is attracting men.

How has anyone misrepresented your posts? At least own what you said.

Bloody hell. Dye hair blonde and wear red lipstick and nail polish equals lacking intelligence and professional competency?

I have yet to have a patient tell me 'No, Dr Peach, you have blonde highlights and a penchant for red lipstick, I don't trust your intelligence or competence regarding my health'.

Get over yourself Elton. What do you think slaggy even means? Go on and list the attributes. Slaggy refers to BEHAVIOUR, and action. People judge 'slags' as having sex in a way which goes against gender stereotypes. So not married, missionary, with only one man sex.
I have not said ANYTHING about judging women as 'slags'.
What I have said, is that the way of dressing (not acting) I describe, women are more likely to be viewed in a sexual way-not slags, but women overtly sexually attractive to men by highlighting the things men find attractive, such as showing breasts or wearing makeup marketed to women as 'sexy'.
I find that because of how men view women, I also view women who choose to aspire to that way of presenting themselves, as putting themselves in a position where they are primarily judged for their attractiveness to the opposite sex, as opposed to other attributes. As men are very visual sexually.
I never said those women are slags. I said I can't take them as seriously. Because I have learned to see things through a male lens, because of my job.
Do 'slaggy' women let down all women? No. As in, women behaving in a 'slaggy' way are in fact ostracised by women, more than they are by men.
Do women dressing in a way which highlights (cautious of the word flaunts but that in a non-derogatory way) their sexuality let down all women? No, but in some fields they will be seen as non-intelligent (because you can't be both), as bad mothers (as some people believe that good mums don't have time for their kids), and as one dimensional (only nice to look at-think Rosie Webster in Coro).
These are socially constructed rules-not mine-but I have taken from those to find what works best for me. As such, my views are what they are. You seem to be taking them very personally as I never directed them at you, so perhaps you should concentrate on what it is that bothers you, and then focus on that.

U2 I have explained in my post above. Happy to 'own' my views thanks. I have not once referred to 'slags'. I have focused on how women present themselves, and how that is perceived both by myself and others.
Funny that actually, there are threads on here where good looking men are referred to as 'lacking substance' or those where it is argued that intelligence is more important than looks.
A crying shame though that women cannot have a mature debate about the appearance of women and how it contributes to social judgement. I have acknowledged my views. What are yours?

Peach that's fine. You do what you want with your appearance. Patients (sorry if you're an academic Dr as opposed to a medical one-as am I) may or may not judge you. People don't always air their views verbally but judge inside.
So long as it works for you that's great. But in my field (STEM) it doesn't.

Can't people see, that opting to dress in a muted way, just to get respect from men, and not to excite the poor little humans who apparently can't control their eyes/mouths/desires, is also appeasing men.
I choose to dress as I wish each day. I take things such as the weather, the amount of time I have available, my own emotions into account when I do so. I refuse to be responsible for how it makes other men, or other women, feel and react.

What a load of bollocks. You can whinge all you want, but it’s blatantly obvious to anybody reading that you are judging them to be slags no matter how you dance around the word.

The c word is used quite a lot on Mumsnet and some right in types do not actually see the hypocrisy involved.

...right on types...

Fair play right. No criticism here.

Getting my nails done today, red, I think

Is that your idea of intelligent debate Elton? To read a post then call bollocks?
It isn't obvious to anyone at all! Only those who cannot seem to grasp the context within which it is written. If you don't want views which aren't yours, perhaps you should refrain from posting threads which are naturally going to invite debate from all angles. At least I can defend my points. I don't just read yours and say 'what a load of crap' because I can't think of anything else to say.

Bit dramatic to send an email. Can you just talk to her?

The word cunt you mean? I like the word cunt.

U2 I have explained in my post above. Happy to 'own' my views thanks. I have not once referred to 'slags'. I have focused on how women present themselves, and how that is perceived both by myself and others.

You didn't call them slags, no.

However, you don't trust the intelligence of those who wear red lipstick and nail varnish and so on.

You are just as bad as those who use the word slag.

A crying shame though that women cannot have a mature debate about the appearance of women and how it contributes to social judgement. I have acknowledged my views. What are yours?

Your comments were mature? My views are that I do not judge women's intelligence levels by what they look like.

Whatever women wear, they are seen as fair game to be judged on it.
Even though plenty of men are fussy about their appearance, spend time and money on their hairstyles and clothes (and, in some cases, make up - ever hung out with a young male Goth?) they generally have more options in the way of a 'look' that is read as 'just a man, going about my ordinary business' than women do. A woman's appearance is never right - there's always someone whining or snarking that she's too sexy, too frumpy, looks like a hairy-legged feminist, looks like a ball-breaking career bitch, is too old/fat to wear that dress, etc...

starlight, if you talk bollocks expect to be told. It is absolutely clear you’re labelling them slags.

You appear to be incredibly arrogant to boot, viewing yourself as superior to other women because of how you dress.

And I grasp exactly what you mean. It’s abundantly obvious that you mean they are slags even if you won’t say it.

You sound deeply unpleasant TBH.