Peak P&C space rage!

[beepthemeep]

Argh. Just whipped DD up to the shops to get some nibbles for our guests who are arriving shortly. The spaces at this particular Waitrose are very tight and I'm very pregnant, so did need a P&C spot.

There was one left, so I headed for it. But nooo - some tool in a wannabe sports car zoomed the wrong way up the one way bit and parked in it (badly). Door opened and a young couple got out. No baby. No child. I assume no disabilities as there were several empty disabled spaces even nearer the shop.

I had to get DD out at the side of the car park and then park, as there was just no way I could do it in a normal space. The worst thing was, as I was struggling to do so, I saw them heading off... THEY WEREN'T EVEN GOING INTO FUCKING WAITROSE!!!!!

Am I wrong to wish the plague of a thousand traffic wardens upon their heads?

What about a mother woth PND who badly needs to get herself, hee newborn twins and her toddler out of the house but without the extra width of the P&C space she cannot guarantee that she can get them all in and out of the car and safely strap them in

I think what is really disappointing is that clearly we all have differing needs and differing levels of need, but by not providing enough BB spaces, not removing the temptatation of mis-using P&C spaces by keeping the near from shop entrances, and not making all spaces wide enough to accomodate todays bigger vehicles, councils and parking providers are making us fight amongst ourselves over a shortage of space.

Generally the selfish, fit and well, and unencumbered will do better in that fight.

We need to write to out councils, MPs etc en masse and pressure them to do something about it.

Do you realise quite how hard it is to get a BB badge? many many people with significant disabilities will never never EVER be eligible for one.

YANBU but I’m 38 weeks pregnant with a 3 year old and suffering a lot with back and ligament pain. and yes it’s a pain if there’s no p&c spaces, but pick your days, do you need to go on a Saturday? I have more luck going on a weekday usually.

tbh what irritates me and what I see FAR more of is people with kids parking in disabled bays. Some people with disabilities will have to turn round and go home if there’s no space to get their wheelchair out the car etc.

lycoperdun If all spaces are made wider there will be fewer spaces and more of a shortage.

As for this: We need to write to out councils, MPs etc en masse and pressure them to do something about it - neither council nor the MP nor the government has any responsibility for the layout of the car-park at a privately owned business such as a supermarket. What "something" did you have in mind?

Do you realise quite how hard it is to get a BB badge? many many people with significant disabilities will never never EVER be eligible for one.*
Some people seem to think that if you have a disability you must qualify automatically for a BB

OP there’s a huge brigade of hidden disabled people on MN and those who are obese through no fault of their own. They always come out in force on these P&C space threads.

Yes, there are always exceptions, but there are also many cunts out there who ignore the spaces that are their for the convenience of parents with small children/car seats who find a slightly wider space easier to navigate.

There are also people who are obese due to medical ailments or medication. But most are just fat through laziness or (poor) choices.

Is that at me bluedog? I certainly do, as I say my Dh had his taken after a PIP review wrongly downgraded his award.

He cannot walk around a supermarket and only tries a few times a year if we have to buy more bread on a good day, and comes out hobbling and pale or purple with pain! He coudl apply for a BB and would qualify but he does not want to risk going through another biased assessment.

I also have hidden disabilities (physical) and really struggle with shopping etc and cannot do it at all the majority of the time.

There are laods of places that we cannot go and lods of things that we cannot do as things are too far way or up or down hill, stairs etc. it is areal fucker to have to plan everywhere to go based on parking and assessibility and whether there is anywhere to sit down. It is soul crushingly shit and I do really do absolutely feel for your pain and difficulty.

It has nothing to do with the OP though where two youngsters bounded out of a low sports car and strolled around a town after parking in a P&C space of a shop they didn't use!

If we just let everyone park wherever based on the fact that they might have hidden disabilities (that are conceivably not as severe as some others), then we might as well not bother with BBs. It is only that they are quantifiable and assessed in some way that means that the majority of people know that they aren't being abused or "given out willy nilly". And most people do know that. You'll get a few tossers no matter what or where, or whoever you are. I don't know what to do about them! (I'd probably give them community service to be served from a wheelchair to see how they like it).

I do think that BBs should be awarded with more discretion (although the independent assessent does exist for people outside the automatic criteria - we have not used it so maybe it could cover Fibro if peole are very severely affected, but probably big differences area to area) and maybe even a 2 tier/ or two zone system is appropriate to reflect people's differing disabilties and needs and the severity of those. Perhaps based around distance. A BB for me would be a Godsend in some circumstances but it is easy to see that some people can walk much, much less far than me, and I would not want to take that space away from them.

Supermarket parking spaces are one thing, but one has to also consider high streets etc where for example my DH may have to go into the bank or Post Office and with a BB he can park close by or outside and can manage some meters for that, but can only once in a blue moon do even a small supermarket shop, and even then with extreme pain afterwards. So we still need to protect those with the least ability if we widen the criteria to benefit people who can walk further albeit with difficulty. So zones or something might make be something that could be worked out.

Though I am sure you would get cold heartless bastards who would implement that in a mulitude of cruel ways. Any good idea can be fucked up if you try hard enough. But I do think we should try

I think it is entirely possible to be able to identify that two young people looking fit and well and moving freely, idependently and with vigour, do not have the problem
Yep, it's entirely possible. However, my dd (21) and her boyfriend have frequently been told off by people for stealing her grandma's blue badge. The badge in fact is hers. She looks fine. She really isn't. The people having a go assume that because she is young, she is fine.

Andrew It is quite simple. Like with all things, the government can legislate if things that are good for society are not done of people's own free will. It has happened with countless things already! And just the threat of costly to comply with legislation will often bring about some level of improvement all by itself.

Do you object to improve the parkign situation for disbaled people?

I personally think a full range of measures is needed to improve access, parking, and traffic levels etc. Its just a matter of having the will to look at the big picture, the future beyond the next parliament and having the will to get it done.

Because all obese people are like that because they are lazy and don't exercise by choice. They NEVER have medical conditions that prevent them exercising do they?
I shall inform my Doctor at once that the 40mg of prednisalone I have been taking since last November has had no impact on my weight whatsoever and that all that damned peer reviewed research is wrong.

This topic on MN drives me to distraction.

These spaces are allocated by the land owners as parent and child spaces. They are not allocated for those with hidden disabilities, or large cars, or sporty numbers, or cheeky bastards who are bone idle. The owners of the land dictate who is eligible to apply there and if others have other needs then they should campaign to the store for their own allocated spaces.

The owners of the land dictate who is eligible to apply there and if others have other needs then they should campaign to the store for their own allocated spaces.
We did, bastards seem to think they're entitled to those too.

The blue badge side of things should be completely seperate. Other than the agreement that disabled people can park wherever they want including a p and c space (and for those with blue badges within their restrictions) then blue badge spaces shouldn’t be mentioned in p and c spaces threads.

The blue badge system needs a massive overhaul because at the moment it is seriously restricting the lives of many people with disabilities. However judgemental people who deem themselves able to judge if someone is disabled by looking at them for a second make that situation even worse.

at the moment there are days I can’t take ds out because without being entitled to a disabled space it would be too difficult to do. On the days we can get out if a p and c space is free too right I will use it but on a bad day (and we have lots of them at the moment) some self appointed parking warden challenging us would be enough to tip me over the edge.

When it comes to “p and c” spaces people just need to mind their own. Challenging someone who is selfish enough to use one with no need won’t change who they are but challenging someone who is already struggling to even get out he door that day could push them to not try again for weeks

Gilead I'm sorry that happens to your daughter. I don't have the answer to all of it.

It is still a problem for people with hidden disabilties if people take allowances they don't need and no one stops them because "anyone might have them and how do you know" because the many, many cheeky fuckers will have taken their spaces. It happens already and sadly only the thought of getting shamed or fined stops more people from doing it.

Humans can be really shit :(

Gilead You just prove my point. When I talk about obese people needing to exercise or make informed food choices it’s not directed at those who, like you, are suffering from some medical ailment or on weight-altering medication. It’s directed at people like me, who, a year ago, was three stone overweight through bone idleness and making uninformed choices. I’m now a healthier weight.

That same situation and set of circumstances applies to the majority who are overweight. They just need to diet sensibly and exercise where possible.

Try not to take these comments so personally, they’re not directed at you or situations like yours.

Lycoperdun All the Acts of Parliament ever passed can't make a car-park bigger than it is; so wider spaces all round mean fewer spaces all round.

And laws are only as good as the enforcement of them.

Do you seriously think any government which could be elected will bring in a Bill to say what proportion of the spaces must be P & C, how wide they must be, how young the children have to be, can grandparents and aunts and uncles and friends of the children use them? And who is to enforce the law and how?

It's not "quite simple" at all.

Your question about disabled people is nothing to do with it; this was P and C space. But it's never been possible to enforce disabled-space laws entirely, has it?

It's also absurd to suggest Waitrose or wherever start hiring security to protect parent and child spaces.

How on earth can it be policed? There are no legal rights, the supermarket has only suggested certain spaces are designated for parents.

Scenarios making it impossible might include a lone grandmother parking there to pick up her daughter and granddaughter from inside the store to give them a lift home, a pregnant woman (so technically with child) but what stage in her pregnancy would she be allowed to park there, how on earth could that be proved? A mother with an abled bodied teenager, is that classed as parent and child?
And then of course, anyone who wishes to park there is within their rights. What if the car park was full and only P and C spaces available?

I'd love to see all spaces made slightly larger, p and c scrapped and disabled bays reserved nearest the shop.

at suggesting the supermarket get the security guard to police the P & C spaces?
Do people honestly think the guards have nothing else to do?

I saw this couple and I would absolutely eat hay with the horses if they were anything other than selfish tossers. They were fit enough to walk around the town for at least half an hour, and they didn't need any help whatsoever getting out of the car. That is fit enough to walk across part of a car park. I mean, we're talking about an extra 2 minutes walking here, at the absolute maximum. They just thought the other spaces were full and that they were being v clever in nipping up the wrong way to take the last spot, is my guess.

There are lots of people who do need extra space or to be a bit closer. People like my own father with his stiff painful knees. But there's more people like the ones I saw this morning who just make it way harder for those who really do need the extra space. And if we all assume blindly that everyone has good motives for parking where they do, these selfish asshats never get pulled up on it. Lycoperdan is absolutely right there.

Saturday mornings are a necessary evil when you work really long hours and your DP is away overnight so you have to get nibbles and dips etc for that evening, sadly. And if you don't have family nearby, you have to take the child with you.

Imagine all the cars held up in the car park while Bob from security peers in the windows for evidence of children! All the traffic is stopped as a long quibble starts with a lady who's trying to pass off her 28 year old son as a child.
Perhaps some parents will resort to displaying their bounty bag on the dash board as proof.

Imagine all the cars held up in the car park while Bob from security peers in the windows for evidence of children!

Well, that would be a mad way to do it. All it would need is for a member of staff to be clearly visible at the spaces, and challenge those who emerge from a car with no child. It could be done in a perfectly polite way, and most would get the message.

The key point I keep trying to make is that this way the store becomes aware of whether there is a problem. They offer these spaces because they think it's good for business. Well, it's not good for business if parents decide not to shop there because the competitor down the road is better at operating their P&C spaces.

Rather than raging at the CF parking in the space who you'll never see again, isn't it better to make it the store's problem to resolve?

I like to think that the wankers that park inconsiderately are in the minority though Beep. Lots of people do avoid those spaces

It's a fair point about people with ailments. Parent and Child spaces should perhaps be re named as spaces reserved for parents, elderly or infirm..?

Blimey that sounds like a job for someone doing Community Service or some other punishment.

If the car park in question was in the town centre it's probably council owned and their problem anyway. No need for shop staff to be involved.