to ask for trans threads to stay in Feminism?

[yawning801]

Just that, really. This isn't meant to start a debate, or be goady in any way. I've just hidden the Feminism board to avoid the trans threads but they're seeping into AIBU (like this one I suppose ) and other places too and I'm trying to avoid them! Can we keep trans threads in Feminism please? TIA

Men dont have to be "nice" to be listened to
Transwomen CERTAINLY dont have to be nice to have a voice

Women though? Sit down and be polite and nice dear, maybe then we'll listen to you. But we probably wont.

Well thats just that old chestnut of telling women that if they would just be nice and polite instead of "hysterical" and loud, THEN people would listen to them. Never mind that loud angry women usually started off as polite reasonable women who were being ignored and walked all over so we know that doesnt work!

That's exactly it and it's why there's no point earnestly engaging with similar people most of the time unless for the benefit of lurkers. But sometimes I just don't have the patience or energy.

Remember that most of us started off as trans allys. Being told that good allys just STFU and listen. Good allys call themselves ciswomen and dont query the fact that if you dont buy into gender steriotypes, how can you identify as someone who displays the steriotypes assigned to your sex? Good allys dont have a place in the conversation.

Then you realise that you are not an ally you are a handmaiden.

@SpringHen I agree, and its incredibly insidious. A man at work telling people what to do is 'in-charge' he is being 'effective' he is 'in control'. A woman doing the same is 'bossy' or a 'bitch'.

There must have been umpteen threads on here about mansplaining or a woman being asked to fetch the coffee whilst she's actually the one supposed to be running the meeting.

And now, lo and behold, we must be quiet and meek when men want to become not 'like us' (because that is meaningless) but actually 'us'.

The day someone with XY chromosomes manages to change their chromosomes to XX then we can talk. Until then enjoy your lipstick and new dress from Zara but you're not a woman.

You are supposed to sit there, with your prolapses and your post natal incontinence that nobody gives a fuck about treating. With your keys handy in your bag to use as weapons because you are walking home alone to your daughter who is surrounded by porn sick boys and your husband who thinks that you should be the one to apply for flexi hours while the kids are young....
...you sit there gettinh told that feminism isnt about you any more, its moved on and if you dont get with the program you can just fuck off and die with the other fucking ugly TERFS.

Play nice you say?

Ok walabaloo. I've noted that you didn't actually engage with the substantive point I made. So let's discuss, as politely as either of us can bear. Me calling you naive aside, the fact remains that trans organisations who adopt extremist positions are getting the law changed to disadvantage women and encourage harmful attitudes to children. Open to discussion about this. I am more than capable of evidencing it.

The angry extremist tone of this thread and bashing OP only serves to drive away the people you're trying to warn. (now where is that hide button)

@Theglobe?? Happy to hear your thoughts

I don't particularly want trans threads in feminism, it would be better to have a whole separate area for trans threads. That way people would be able to find or post thing easily, without clogging up other boards.

Hide threads like this at your daughters' peril.

Not much point debating this, as MN have made it clear it isn't going to happen. But it's quite odd, given that, for instance, they shift threads on grammar into Pedants' Corner.

Hide threads like this at your daughters' peril.

And your sons'.

Whilst I do see the potential problems with self ID, I don’t actually think that MN has decent discussions on it.

And yet when asked, politely to put your views forward, so that a decent discussion can be had, there is resounding silence!

No, you are not being unreasonable.

Ok walabaloo. I've noted that you didn't actually engage with the substantive point I made. So let's discuss, as politely as either of us can bear. Me calling you naive aside, the fact remains that trans organisations who adopt extremist positions are getting the law changed to disadvantage women and encourage harmful attitudes to children. Open to discussion about this. I am more than capable of evidencing it.

^
I didn't say they weren't , I was just trying to say why these posts appear transphobic. I don't think (most) posters are transphobic just offered my thoughts on why it might come across that way.

I do agree with the meek women don't make history train of thought, but on the other hand no one wants to be just preaching to the choir / echo chamber whilst isolating potential allies.

As an analogy , I'm sure people had / have legitimate concerns about immigration, but why would anyone listen to a bunch of racist nasty twats in Britain first?

@walabaloo they didn't. They listened to ukip!

As an analogy , I'm sure people had / have legitimate concerns about immigration, but why would anyone listen to a bunch of racist nasty twats in Britain first?

I hardly think that's a fair comparison.

Oh and also then, if that's the case, why are people listening to the trans extremists rather than other trans people like Miranda Yardley? Why isn't Miranda invited to consult on policy?

Own goal there with the immigration arguement...

Perhaps every mumsnetter has threads they'd like to be moved out of topics they read.

For me, this would be cheekyfuckers, for you, trans.

Anything with the word 'bridezilla' in it...

Agreed, @CertainHalfDesertedStreets. Propose to widen to all -zillas, not just the bridal sort.

Hi pax Glad to see you made your way over here!

Well, you did provide a link so I wouldn't get lost.

Shouldn’t this be in sitestuff?