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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to ask for trans threads to stay in Feminism?

345 replies

yawning801 · 23/02/2018 17:11

Just that, really. This isn't meant to start a debate, or be goady in any way. I've just hidden the Feminism board to avoid the trans threads but they're seeping into AIBU (like this one I suppose Grin) and other places too and I'm trying to avoid them! Can we keep trans threads in Feminism please? TIA

OP posts:
VladmirsPoutine · 23/02/2018 22:12

@DarthArts That's fucking terrifying.

TrappedInSpace · 23/02/2018 22:18

I don't see it as a feminist issue.

The new guidelines in school are most concerning for me (selfishly) because I worry that my very "logical" son will get into trouble for saying the wrong thing.

I also think the prisoners self IDing is a huge issue and not particularly feminist

DarthArts · 23/02/2018 22:23

@VladmirsPoutine

Yep.

Just look at the language.

"Women like me" vs "Women like you".

What's that actually saying? It's certainly not about parity or equality is it.

It's about being better than "women like you". Having more privilege, more platforms, more opportunity. Just like... a misogynistic man...

VladmirsPoutine · 23/02/2018 22:26

@TrappedInSpace You seem to be conflating a few different concepts there. Your "very logical" son surely would see that a man in a dress is not a woman. Or just a man plainly and simply should not be in a woman's changing room? That's logic surely, isn't it?

Logic is the only thing that needs to be applied here. If your chromosomes are XX and those with XX chromosomes have certain spaces and services provided for them then why should someone with XY chromosomes just be afforded entrance because they 'feel' like they are XX? Logic and biology can't be fought against. They are facts.

I don't mean to be rude and I respect your views, but you saying: "I don't see it as a feminist issue" is a bit like saying you don't see buses or trains as a transport issue.

RaininSummer · 23/02/2018 22:30

SilverTurtles, you rock x

TrappedInSpace · 23/02/2018 22:34

I should have written that to me it is not a feminist issue.

It is wider than that.

It shouldn't be cordoned off in one section.

I

VladmirsPoutine · 23/02/2018 22:39

Apologies Trapped, I misunderstood your stance. But I do hope your very logical son continues being very logical. That for me is the nub of it. Let go of 'ideology' and think logically. If you have a penis then you cannot be a woman. End of discussion. Wear a dress or lipstick if you fancy it but you're not a woman. Logic.
Apologies.

MiniMum97 · 23/02/2018 23:03

Yadnbu. I've hidden the feminist topics, but still the bile and hate seeps through into other areas of mumsnet.

It's disgusting.

I agree entirely. You've taken over the feminist boards, keep off the rest of Mumsnet!

nauticant · 23/02/2018 23:10

Don't worry TrappedInSpace, I read your post exactly as you intended it to read without a problem.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 23/02/2018 23:13

keep off the rest of Mumsnet!

Who died and made you Justine

DarthArts · 23/02/2018 23:13

@MiniMum97

Bile and hate?

The fact you think that is exactly because you've hidden the topic.

Perhaps you might like to try be a bit more open minded like the OP?

soapboxqueen · 23/02/2018 23:14

Minimum I personally find the misogyny and homophobia of the TA movement disgusting but each to their own.

And no, you don't get to decide what women talk about and where. If you don't want to read a topic move past like everyone else.

CadyHeron · 23/02/2018 23:19

Not RTFT, but YAB soooo U.No, no no. I'm under a new name change now as I name change after so long but I think it's important that they aren't just squirrelled away into the feminism board!!
I can't be doing with the feminism boards usually,and never go into them. All this "cis" (ie actual women, you're no longer a woman, you're now a cis woman) - would not have known about if it wasn't from a thread in AIBU.Get lost,call yourself what you like, but you don't get to re-label me.
The self ID thing as well that could be on its way in? Important to us all.Please wake up.

gingergenius · 23/02/2018 23:20

The only bile and hate I've seen is from people claiming that a penis is somehow a female appendage and I deserve to be killed if I disagree.

nicentoasty · 23/02/2018 23:43

Sorry OP but YABU. I would never have been educated on this topic if it hadn't been for the threads on AIBU. I and many other women have woken up to the dangers of self-ID through AIBU threads.

Pretty much everything on AIBU could fit in some other section of the Forum (relationships, parenting, etiquette, politics etc) but that doesn't mean it can't be posted about here.

CadyHeron · 23/02/2018 23:44

Sorry OP but YABU. I would never have been educated on this topic if it hadn't been for the threads on AIBU..

Same.

HelenaDove · 23/02/2018 23:52

Silver Turtles............Thanks

Im all for children wearing what they want to wear. But ...........puberty blockers im horrified about.

I cant understand how this happens but an adult childfree by choice woman cant get a sterilisation on the NHS because she "doesnt know her own mind and may change it"

But the thought of giving young people puberty blockers/cross sex hormones is just chilling.

Gen X (my generation) grew up with ppl like Boy George Marilyn , Marc Almond as part of our backdrop and it seems to me that regarding gender issues it was freer then than now.

Ereshkigal · 24/02/2018 00:23

So a law will be passed that sees children perved on in changing rooms, women attacked in public toilets, female sports irradicated, kids sterilised in schools, and no-one's going to dare repeal it. Right.

Why do you think such a law would be passed in the first place? Why wouldn't you want to stop it?

bellasuewow · 24/02/2018 00:45

I am a parent of a girl and I want to see these threads because I have become really horrified about the implications of self Id for the rights of children, trans people, gay people and women. Op you need to educate yourself.

SilverTurtles · 24/02/2018 10:26

MiniMum97

Can you please read my post and tell me if it's bile filled and hateful?
I agree with the feminist stance on it.
I am transsexual with a GRC.
I don't want these things discussions kept to feminism?

SilverTurtles · 24/02/2018 10:27

These things/discussion.
Not these things discussions.
For fucks sake.
I didn't mean to call you all things! Grin Blush

walabaloo · 24/02/2018 10:52

The main problem (I think) is that there are issues that need discussing, but the hatred spills out and makes it look like it's transphobia disguised as concern.

For example, the recent thread on trans woman taking drugs to be able to breastfeed, concern for whether the breast milk was checked for drugs that were used to induced gender reassignment is a valid concern but then people start chiming in that the trans woman must have bullied the birth mother into not breast feeding and that the trans woman MUST have a sexual fetish and is a sick pervert for involving the baby. Maybe they were actually just wanting to feed their baby? And maybe, like the majority of uk women the woman who gave birth didn't want to breastfeed? Crazy right??

Similarly , the self -ID issue , should be discussed , but saying all men who change gender past the age of 30 aren't "real" trans and have a fetish (the auto-gyne-whatsit that ive only heard of on Mumsnet?) Is ridiculous and is pretty transphobic. I'm sure there is a few perves and mentally ill who need therapy not gender reassignment but stating ALL of them are just doing it for sexual kicks?? Pretty offensive.

Last example, lily Madigan. Might be a twat for all I know, and her position as a women's officer and questionable tweets is valid to discuss, but deliberately calling her "him" and deadnaming her doesn't add to your argument it makes you look like a bigot.

Oh actually, I have one more. I have seen time and time again, people on here insisting a trans woman will NEVER pass and therefore women will always be uncomfortable sharing toilets with them. And if they don't say it they are just being polite. Absolute bollocks.

If you want to convince people your not transphobic, state facts stay polite and don't pull up extremists from tumbler as if they represent the trans majority.

BertrandRussell · 24/02/2018 11:08

“If you want to convince people your not transphobic, state facts stay polite and don't pull up extremists from tumbler as if they represent the trans majority“

I always state facts, stay polite and never quote extremists from either side. I am still frequently called transphobic though. I wish it was as simple as you suggest.

XXkimchi · 24/02/2018 11:14

but deliberately calling her "him" and deadnaming her doesn't add to your argument it makes you look like a bigot.
If you want to convince people your not transphobic, state facts stay polite
So are we suppose to state facts or lies? Your post isn’t clear. It’s a fact that Lily is a biological man, a man who’s been incredibly sexist to women. If your wanting me to call him, she, that is a lie.
We say he and she based on sex not gender.
I wouldn’t humour the flat earth society saying oh yes it is very flat isn’t it either.

Ereshkigal · 24/02/2018 11:14

If you want to convince people your not transphobic, state facts stay polite and don't pull up extremists from tumbler as if they represent the trans majority.

I wouldn't, if it wasn't these extremist people in many cases getting public policy changed to disadvantage women. You are very naive.