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AIBU?

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Original poster

To ask for someone to actually explain how trans women are women???

439 replies

Lilyyulelog · 22/02/2018 21:40

I genuinely would love a satisfactory explanation, one which gets to the point. Since becoming aware of the 'trans debate' I've yet to see one that makes any sense at all.

Or is it just that whether or not they are isn't actually the real issue? But surely it is...

OP posts:
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8
ShotsFired · 23/02/2018 14:32

@DeloresJaneUmbridge
Read through some of the responses here and I am still in a mire about it all.
- OK, ask questions and join the debate, you are most welcome! Flowers

I see the risks to biological women through some of the activities of trans activists.
- yes, that is the point.

I equally see many trans women who are just struggling for acceptance and who are not activists. I have no issue with using the correct terminology...if a trans woman wants the term "she" then I have no problem using that...live and let live.
- Again, we agree.

However I do have a problem when roles such as Women's Officer are appropriated by a trans woman who in some cases has not even undergone transition. They can have no idea what it means to be a woman because they've never had to live it or experience it. The role of Trans Women's Officer" I would have no issues with. Trans women have specific challenges and issues which need supporting and fighting for.
-That is exactly what people have tried to explain and been shouted down as transphobic for even thinking it. The Trans role is not wanted by that person, they wanted only the Women's role

Are trans women really women? No, I think they are trans women with heir own identity and issues. What's wrong with that? I have no issue with anyone identifying as the opposite sex, better that than deny it and fall into terrible mental health issues.
-And one more time, we agree. The transsexuals just getting on with their life agree with you too (and have posted here/online numerous times to say so). We all agree that nothing is wrong with people quietly living how they like - you do it your way, I do it my way etc, nobody gets hurt, everyone is happy. But your opening sentence there immediately makes you transphobic in the eyes of the TRA community you mention above.

Fucked up, right?

user1471596238 · 23/02/2018 14:45

CSI Female, I disagree with the notion that one or two examples of female politicians
, either way (regardless of political allegiance) should be seen as either advancing or setting back females in politics.

Dungeondragon15 · 23/02/2018 14:46

DN4GeekinDerby Not sure why your post was directed at me. I don't think that lesbians are an "interesting potential threat" I just wondered whether the people who were so against transgender children sharing a room would have the same opinion about their children sharing a room with someone of the same sex who was gay. I'm interested because I know (from experience) that many people do and was just wondering if there was an overlap between transphobic and homophobic ( I was just interested).

shouldaknownbetter · 23/02/2018 14:51

Isn't it the Thais who recognise a third gender (ladyboys)?
Can't we just do something like that? (aware I may be simplifying the issue here, but sometimes the simplest views can be the most valid)

noeffingidea · 23/02/2018 14:55

Dungeons in what way is not wanting your daughter to share a room with a teenage boy on a school trip being transphobic? That's simple safeguarding.

ShotsFired · 23/02/2018 15:00

@shouldaknownbetter
Isn't it the Thais who recognise a third gender (ladyboys)?
Can't we just do something like that?

Unfortunately that suggestion is transphobic in the extreme. Did you know you were so offensive to trans people? (I mean that tongue in cheek of course, but to the people you would say it to, that would be the reaction)

shouldaknownbetter · 23/02/2018 15:06

Ah ok, thought it was worth asking!

Dungeondragon15 · 23/02/2018 15:30

Dungeons in what way is not wanting your daughter to share a room with a teenage boy on a school trip being transphobic? That's simple safeguarding.

I didn't say that not wanting your teenage daughter to share a twin room with a teenage boy would be transphobic.Hmm

beepthemeep · 23/02/2018 15:33

The problem with the third gender is that it's not what the rabid activists want, even if many transpeople would be happy.

They want straight men to see them as women. The ones who fancy women want lesbians to see them that way too.

The easiest way to do that, for some people, is to attack what "woman" means until it fits your definition. So to get women to give up their identity and safe spaces. And by suggesting it, you're a transphobic "terf".

beepthemeep · 23/02/2018 15:34

But what if that teenage boy were Liam/lily madigan, for example? Would you want your daughter to share a room with that person?

noeffingidea · 23/02/2018 15:43

Dungeons your post at 14.56 indicated that.

MrsOvarall · 23/02/2018 15:49

I didn't say that not wanting your teenage daughter to share a twin room with a teenage boy would be transphobic.

Um, you did, dungeons:

I just wondered whether the people who were so against transgender children sharing a room would have the same opinion about their children sharing a room with someone of the same sex who was gay. I'm interested because I know (from experience) that many people do and was just wondering if there was an overlap between transphobic and homophobic.

HairyBallTheorem · 23/02/2018 15:50

Coming up for 300 posts now, and still no explanation beyond "well, if you aren't prepared to say 'transwomen are women' you will make some (not all) transwomen terribly upset, and making people terribly upset isn't very nice, so please could you suspend all knowledge of biology and all discussion of the potential knock-on consequences of completely abandoning the biologically based definition of 'woman' and repeat after me 'transwomen are women', then maybe we can talk..."

Quite what we would have left to talk about after this re-education process was complete (barring perhaps the weather and whether digestives are superior to rich tea) remains a mystery.

Dungeondragon15 · 23/02/2018 15:50

But what if that teenage boy were Liam/lily madigan, for example? Would you want your daughter to share a room with that person?

I wouldn't mind if they were the same age and friends.

Dungeondragon15 · 23/02/2018 15:52

MrsOvarall I wouldn't see the transgender girl as a boy in the first place though.

Bluelady · 23/02/2018 15:59

Oh ffs, Dungeon, you really are completely bonkers.

DaisyDrip · 23/02/2018 16:05

Thanks Dungeondragon15 You've just peaktrans'd me (again).

MrsOvarall · 23/02/2018 16:06

MrsOvarall I wouldn't see the transgender girl as a boy in the first place though

Huh? This is neither here nor there.

Original poster
Lilyyulelog · 23/02/2018 16:07

I wish I could believe that men and women really did have such innately different brains (men logical, methodical, stoic and women emotional, nurturing, weak, etc.). It would make the state of the world easier to swallow. But it doesn't match up to my interactions with people and I know that if I started to tell myself and others this I'd be all too aware that I was advocating something I didn't believe. This thinking does seem to be the domain of idiots and the perpetually bigoted. When it's the idea that men and women are different but equal isn't it interesting that women get the ridiculously short end of the stick?

Anyway anyone pretending trans women behave like stereotypical women is deluding themselves.

OP posts:
doesthislookoddtoyou · 23/02/2018 16:07

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BaronessEllaSaturday · 23/02/2018 16:11

I don't care if my dd shares with a transgender person, I don't care if they share with a lesbian, I wouldn't even care if it's an alien what I do care about is that they are the same biological sex.

Original poster
Lilyyulelog · 23/02/2018 16:11

If the only answer that resembles a satisfactory explanation relies on ridiculous sexism, well that just says it all doesn't it

OP posts:
Dungeondragon15 · 23/02/2018 16:13

The penis wouldn't tip you off?

I might not see them as a girl yet (depending on what treatment they had had) but no I wouldn't see them as a boy if they were transitioning and if they were my daughters friend I wouldn't be bothered about them sharing a room

DaisyDrip · 23/02/2018 16:16

I'm sitting shaking my head here. I can't believe what I'm reading. We do still care about safeguarding kids in this country don't we? We do still care about keeping our kids safe?