Page 2 | 'Engaging trans people in swimming' (aka penises are ok in the lady's changing rooms, but transmen must cover their breasts)

(332 Posts)
pisacake Tue 06-Feb-18 03:16:52

"You may need to do some education work with other centre users who may be concerned when sharing a
space with a trans person, especially if a trans customer looks to have different physical characteristics to the
gender they are identifying with i.e. a male to female trans customer who has not had top or bottom surgery
may still look like a male to others, and conversely with female to male trans customers.

"You should adopt a zero tolerance policy on any transphobic
behaviour from staff or centre users.
2. Try to encourage your workforce to be aware of any potential
transphobia likely to happen before or after a session, both in or
around the centre, and empower them to challenge transphobic
language, attitudes and behaviours from other staff members,
customers and the general public too."

"Some swimmers who were born female but now identify
differently may wear what is called a ‘binder’ – this is a
tight piece of material that is wrapped around the top half
of the body in order to compress breasts to conceal them
behind clothing. This is perfectly safe to swim in, and
should be encouraged."

"Some swimmers may have a preference to wear less
clothing than usually expected. For example, some
swimmers may not want to wear anything on their top half,
so as to identify with their new gender, but if they have
not had top surgery this means that this person’s breasts
will be clearly visible. This needs to be talked about and an
amicable solution found. This may be appropriate to allow
during a trans specific session, but if a trans swimmer is
attending any other session in the timetable, then they
should be appropriately covered up – you wouldn’t allow a
woman to swim topless in a public session, and you need
to treat everyone the same."

So basically trans-identified women must cover up, but trans-identified men can shower nude with women and the women needed to be 'educated' to understand this. And if anyone complains turf them out under the 'zero tolerance against transphobia' policy.

OP’s posts: |
FlaviaAlbia Tue 06-Feb-18 08:37:34

ridiculoussingle I'm sure I've read that the men's pond is not admitting women identifying as men, and the mixed is staying as it was too, it's just the women's pond that's under pressure.


Alwaysinmyheart Tue 06-Feb-18 08:38:34

How are we expected to know the difference between someone who is genuinely Trans and someone who is just there to perve on women and girls?

And if you complain, you get kicked out??

Fuck that shit

AngryAttackKittens Tue 06-Feb-18 08:40:42

I'm surprised they didn't mention the thumbscrews that will be used in the reeducation process, honestly.

BiologyMatters Tue 06-Feb-18 08:46:25

There i go peak transed again. It's a daily occurance.

rowdywoman1 Tue 06-Feb-18 08:47:34

The National Association of Headteachers has similar 'threats' running through their guidelines.
The trouble is they've obviously used the same organisations who of course take the approach that 'a transgender woman is a real woman' and any non believers MUST be re-educated. And every single organisation just caves in in the face of this.

I wish I did twitter as I'd be on the pages of those organisations calling them out for their rampant misogyny.

ShotsFired Tue 06-Feb-18 08:47:40

@Mrsmiguelcervantes There will be maternity wards. The one service they can’t ID into.

You wanna bet? Look forward to a future where birthing individuals (what we used to call expectant mothers) come in all shapes and sizes and can absolutely have a "birthing event", uterus or not...

"During birthing events, the center of focus is not the pregnant Handmaid but the very un-pregnant Wife, who spends the entire ceremony with her legs splayed and groaning in pain, as if she were, indeed, actually about to give birth. All the while, her fellow wives sit around her, gently coaching her to “breathe.”"


Alwaysinmyheart Tue 06-Feb-18 08:48:49

I've just tweeted them, I'm so disgusted by this! This is genuinely dangerous to women and girls. Sexual predators, voyeurs etc will be rubbing their hands in glee at the prospect.

Oh well, at least it might help to peak Trans more people...

GoodyHumbygge Tue 06-Feb-18 08:50:32

Funny how the double standards between TIM & TIF always reflects the assymetric structural differences between men and women, to the detriment of female ppl. TIM & TIF differences still adhere to the laws of misogyny... proves you can never identify your way out of this shit, TIMs are just a men's sexual rights and access movement.

Alwaysinmyheart Tue 06-Feb-18 08:50:45

I hate the Daily Mail, but want them to run an article about this to get exposure. This is one time I actually wish they were reading these threads!

RadicalFern Tue 06-Feb-18 08:51:23

I am getting so fed up with reading such super-nonsense all over the place. I don't know why everyone seems to have lost all sense of critical thinking.

Sure, we don't let women swim with their boobs out, but we also don't let men get their penises out in the women's changing rooms. If transmen's boobs are deemed to be unacceptable roaming free in the pool, why are the transwoman's penises allowed into the changing rooms??

Also, the binder thing. I can only think that whoever wrote this 'helpsheet' has been fed total misinformation. Swimming in one would be like swimming in a corset - how is that at all safe?!

RadicalFern Tue 06-Feb-18 08:53:20

In addition, once everyone's clothes are off, I bet it's really tricky to tell the difference between the male and female penises, and the male and female boobs.

morningrunner Tue 06-Feb-18 08:53:48

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Alwaysinmyheart Tue 06-Feb-18 08:57:18

I've just tweeted this to The Times journalist Janice Turner, I'm sure she'll be suitably appalled.

TestyAndTERFy Tue 06-Feb-18 08:58:10

Another morning reading more about these organisations bowing to transcult madness. Why are people falling for this stuff!?
As has been said, the idea that suggesting re-education is necessary should women/girls who react with shock to seeing a penis in the changing rooms is utterly sinister. So much so that part of me thinks this whole thing is just some surreal nightmare. Women have penises now, really!? And those of us who don't know this are transphobes. The disparity between the treatment of MTF vs FTM wrt what is and is not (apparently) acceptable says it all.
What the actual fuck is going on!??!!
Twitter handle for Swim England is @Swim_England. I'm off to create a new account...
Let's hope the journos pick this one up asap.

AlllWomenShortbreads Tue 06-Feb-18 09:00:56

Please, please put this in Chat or AIBU as PP said, so everyone can see it.
It’s complete and utter madness and it’s scaring the crap out of me. sad

TallulahWaitingInTheRain Tue 06-Feb-18 09:02:06

That's great isn't it. First you get flashed, then you get 're-educated'.

What message are little girls going to take from all this?

AngryAttackKittens Tue 06-Feb-18 09:04:21

Yes, let's put it in AIBU. They may be able to bully some women into reluctantly going along with this shit when it's themselves on the line (female socialization really does a number on you that way), but good luck bullying mothers into accepting random cocks in the changing rooms with their daughters.

ChemistryGeek Tue 06-Feb-18 09:06:52

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Alwaysinmyheart Tue 06-Feb-18 09:08:41

Well, I've done it, I've emailed the Daily Mail. The bloody Guardian won't write about this stuff as they want to be seen to be right on. So tired of this dangerous nonsense.

AlllWomenShortbreads Tue 06-Feb-18 09:13:51

Thanks Always

TheCountessofFitzdotterel Tue 06-Feb-18 09:16:45

How can they promote such an unashamedly blatant double standard and not see how sexist they are being?

HoneyDragon Tue 06-Feb-18 09:19:12

Transmen boobs out swimming = now fine

Breastfeeding boobs out = still fucking offensive

Righty ho.


OvaHere Tue 06-Feb-18 09:26:42

I think who ever wrote this or the people they took advice from writing are well aware that the TIF angle is a bit of a moot point.

In reality I don't think any TIFs will actually be getting their breasts out openly in a male changing area and probably not the main pool either.

I'm pretty sure TIFs still retain a female sense of self preservation.

The whole point of this is once again about penises being allowed freely in female changing areas.

AlllWomenShortbreads Tue 06-Feb-18 09:40:24

And even small female children in pools are supposed to cover their non-boobs as well.
I don’t understand why some boobs or genitalia are suddenly so OK to have out?

misscockerspaniel Tue 06-Feb-18 10:31:04

Swim England is the national governing body for swimming in England and its largest source of income comes from Sport England.

Sport England is a non-departmental public body under the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport.

Margot James MP, who recently re-tweeted a Janice Turner article, was appointed on 9 Jan 2018, the Minister of State and the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport.

Any one up for a campaign?

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