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Original poster

To ask for someone to actually explain how trans women are women???

439 replies

Lilyyulelog · 22/02/2018 21:40

I genuinely would love a satisfactory explanation, one which gets to the point. Since becoming aware of the 'trans debate' I've yet to see one that makes any sense at all.

Or is it just that whether or not they are isn't actually the real issue? But surely it is...

OP posts:
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8
Bluelady · 23/02/2018 16:17

You haven't got a daughter, have you, Dragon? Never heard such a lot of ridiculous shite in my life.

DN4GeekinDerby · 23/02/2018 16:17

Dungeon You asked if someone who minded their daughter sharing with a trans girl would mind her sharing with a lesbian and that your reason for doing so was because you were "That's why my first paragraph was directed at you. As I said, that question comes up in pretty much all of these conversations or any conversation that touches on sex-segregated spaces and male violence. That question equates males who identify as women with lesbians which is homophobic. Same-sex attracted women aren't relevant to discussing whether trans women are women or if trans women belong in female sex-segregated spaces. We're female, that's kinda the point.

In my experience, lesbians are the first and most to be attacked as transphobic, and I've seen far more overlap with homophobic people and people trying to push that dysphoric males are women and belong in women's spaces.

When I was dysphoric female in high school on an otherwise all male wrestling team, I used the girls' changing room or a single facility unisex changing space, when staying away I had to have my own room, at other schools when the scales were in the guy's locker room I had to be weighed before anyone else came in with a female member of staff present, and for the locker room pep talks, I had to wait outside until it cleared that all the boys were fully dressed by at least two adults who remained in the room the entire time I was in there. If a bible belt tiny high school and a district with many unhappy with it Christian schools that my school competed against can put in those safeguards over 15 years ago for one trans student, we should expect better now. More supervision to deal with harassment would be good.

Dysphoric people deserve consideration and compassion, we don't get to ignore the risks to ourselves and to others because we're dysphoric and in no way are risks of having male students however they identify room with female students however they identify to be ignored or made equivalent to lesbian or bisexual girls rooming with straight girls. If you can't see the difference, then you've failed your Perception check and I don't know what else to tell you.

doesthislookoddtoyou · 23/02/2018 16:19

I might not see them as a girl yet (depending on what treatment they had had) but no I wouldn't see them as a boy if they were transitioning

well there isn't another option, they are one or the other.

Dungeondragon15 · 23/02/2018 16:28

You asked if someone who minded their daughter sharing with a trans girl would mind her sharing with a lesbian and that your reason for doing so was because you were

Because I was what?! Interested??

If you can't see the difference, then you've failed your Perception check and I don't know what else to tell you.

Eh? I didn't state whether I thought there was a difference. I was just asking what other people thought out of interest because many people do mind their DDs sharing with lesbians. I didn't say I did!

Dungeondragon15 · 23/02/2018 16:29

well there isn't another option, they are one or the other.

In your opinion.

Bluelady · 23/02/2018 16:30

It's not a matter of opinion. It's biology.

XXkimchi · 23/02/2018 16:36

It's not a matter of opinion. It's biology.
This with bells on.

doesthislookoddtoyou · 23/02/2018 16:37

In your opinion not in my opinion, in actual fact. Please tell us you understand this basic fact?

Dungeondragon15 · 23/02/2018 16:48

Gender is a social construction. It is not just a question of biology. Even biologically there are some people who are "intersex" at birth so not necessarily one or the other in actual fact.

doesthislookoddtoyou · 23/02/2018 16:49

gender is but sex is not. It is just a question of biology.
Don't you understand the difference between sex and gender?

Bluelady · 23/02/2018 16:50

Clearly not.

XXkimchi · 23/02/2018 16:55

We seperate on sex not gender.

HairyBallTheorem · 23/02/2018 17:00

Intersex people have asked repeatedly for their experiences not to be appropriated by the trans activist lobby.

I still don't see how anyone can think putting two young teens, one of whom has a penis and the other one of whom has a vagina, with all those teenage hormones circulating and a good deal of natural curiosity about sex, in the same room overnight is a good idea. Clearly not all male/female pairings are going to get up to something - but a non-negligible percentage will, then there'll be rocketing levels of teen pregancies (unless we all give our daughters and transboys depo shots before overnight school trips, just in case).

TellsEveryoneRealFacts · 23/02/2018 17:04

It is not just a question of biology. Even biologically there are some people who are "intersex" at birth so not necessarily one or the other in actual fact.

Gosh never heard that one before. Intersex people should not be used to prove that men can MAGICALLY CHANGE INTO WOMEN.

Intersex people areBORN intersex. It is not a fucking choice.

Anyway you are clearly just here due to twittersphere and trying to win points for your MRA gang.

Bluelady · 23/02/2018 17:06

And not doing very well.

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 23/02/2018 17:09

There are only two sexes and those are male and female.

Intersex people are still either male or female. They are not a bloody third sex.

geekymommy · 23/02/2018 17:09

I take people's word on what gender they are. It makes things easier. I'm married and not interested in sleeping with anybody other than DH, so anyone else's genitalia aren't really of much interest to me. It's not my problem, and I LIKE it when things are not my problem.

UpstartCrow · 23/02/2018 17:10

But Lesbians - check.
Women Do It Too - check.
I'm Not Invested But - check.
Oppressed Trans People - check.
Intersex - check.

House!

Dungeondragon15 · 23/02/2018 17:22

Gosh never heard that one before. Intersex people should not be used to prove that men can MAGICALLY CHANGE INTO WOMEN.

I'm not using it to prove that men can "magically change into women". I am just countering the point that there are only two sexes and nothing in between. That isn't even true biologically.

And as I said gender is a social construct constuction not biologially so to insist that someone can't change gender just seems nasty. Let people be who they want to be.

Dungeondragon15 · 23/02/2018 17:26

I still don't see how anyone can think putting two young teens, one of whom has a penis and the other one of whom has a vagina, with all those teenage hormones circulating and a good deal of natural curiosity about sex, in the same room overnight is a good idea. Clearly not all male/female pairings are going to get up to something - but a non-negligible percentage will, then there'll be rocketing levels of teen pregancies (unless we all give our daughters and transboys depo shots before overnight school trips, just in case).

I was asked what I would be okay with regard to my DD. As I said I wouldn't mind her sharing a room with a transgender girl even if they still had a penis. That may be hard for you to comprehend but it doesn't mean it is not true!

Dungeondragon15 · 23/02/2018 17:28

I'm Not Invested But - check.

Considering that this is the first time I have been on a thread about transgender issue, I don't think I can be described as overinvested in the subject. I bet the same cannot be said of you.

XXkimchi · 23/02/2018 17:29

And as I said gender is a social construct constuction not biologially so to insist that someone can't change gender just seems nasty
People are insisting you can’t change sex which is correct, single sex places (changing rooms, dv shelters) are based on sex not gender.

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 23/02/2018 17:31

I am just countering the point that there are only two sexes and nothing in between. That isn't even true biologically.

Uh, there are only two sexes. Even people with intersex disorders are still either male or female.

Intersex people are not a third sex or an in between sex because there is no such bloody thing!

doesthislookoddtoyou · 23/02/2018 17:32

I am just countering the point that there are only two sexes and nothing in between. That isn't even true biologically.

it is true though.

But your point was that you would see a young person who is NOT intersex as neither a boy nor a girl. So what would they be then?

Gender is irrelevant to this discussion, which is about sex. Do you know the difference?

BaronessEllaSaturday · 23/02/2018 17:33

And as I said gender is a social construct constuction not biologially so to insist that someone can't change gender just seems nasty

gender and sex are separate things, gender wise I couldn't care less what you want to be but women need protection based on biology