Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Original poster

Is this allowed?

162 replies

ThisLittleKitty · 22/02/2018 13:28

Does anyone know if this is allowed. Ex doesn't work or pay maintenance. He lives in a 3 bed housing association and rents out the rooms in the house (sleeps in the living room on the sofa so rents out 3 bedroom.) This gets him enough to live without having to work. He says he is allowed to do it and he has permission from the HA but when I spoke to the Cms and explained to them what he does and asked if they could take money from that, they said it was illegal and he want actually allowed to do it so they wouldn't be able to take any money from him. I'm not sure who is right as when I was younger my mum use to have a
Lodger and rent the box room out to him and she said it was allowed, she just had to pay a small amount to the council. Anyone know?

OP posts:

Caramelchomp · 22/02/2018 20:56

Definitely report him. Everyone else pays tax.

Graphista · 22/02/2018 21:38

It's a bidding system where I am too. And in your first post you didn't say you COULDN'T move but that you WOULDN'T (several times).

Doesn't mean you'd never get a suitably sized property for your needs which would then free up your property for a family that needs it.

You could even bid for and move to a 2 bed or do a swap.

But I very much get the feeling that your first post was more accurate, not can't but won't.

Ljlsmum · 22/02/2018 21:56

I think you need to try and get written evidence of how much he’s pocketing whether legally or not and use that to start getting money through cms. Why should he be getting away with paying nothing towards your and his kids.

C8H10N4O2 · 22/02/2018 23:20

And in your first post you didn't say you COULDN'T move but that you WOULDN'T (several times).

Actually no - in the first post the PP stated they wouldn't move unless something suitable was available in which case they would consider it.

Mummyoflittledragon · 23/02/2018 04:32

Snowsky
This guy is living in a 3 bed house. He is renting out 3 rooms. He is NOT ALLOWED to do this a) because more than 3 unrelated people living together under the 2004 housing act now classes the house as an HMO, b) he has created a situation of overcrowding.

He is running an illegal HMO, which will not pass regulations, not declaring his income and not paying a penny toward his child. But hey, the comments about him are out of order.

C8H10N4O2 · 23/02/2018 09:16

He is running an illegal HMO, which will not pass regulations, not declaring his income and not paying a penny toward his child. But hey, the comments about him are out of order.

You don't know this.

You don't know how much rent he takes
You don't know what he declares to HMRC (or if he takes enough to need to pay tax)
you don't know if his lodgers are unrelated

The only point here which the OP made was lack of contribution to the child which he should be making if he is getting sufficient income from the rent. The rest is just negative assumptions.

But obviously as he lives in an HA he must be on the fiddle somehow.

Original poster

ThisLittleKitty · 23/02/2018 10:04

Well checked on the HA website and apparently he is allowed! Why they heck did Cms tell me it was illegal. Not sure where to go from here now.

OP posts:

Mummyoflittledragon · 23/02/2018 10:06

CH10N402

If he has 3 lodgers, he is running and HMO, that isn’t according to me. That’s according to the law. Even if all of the lodgers are related and make up one household, which is unlikely, it’s still and HMO. www.spareroom.co.uk/content/info-landlords/will-taking-in-a-lodger-turn-my-home-into-an-hmo

As what he’s doing is illegal, it would be a very fair assumption he’s not declaring the income and even if he’s only taking £40 per room, which is extremely low, he’s making over the annual threshold allowed before having to declare lodgers.

My comments have NOTHING to do with a person living in a HA. It is to do with someone doing something, which is illegal. I would say exactly the same were he a landlord of a btl not declaring income or maintaining their property appropriately, a multimillionaire and business owner or a benefits fraudster.

C8H10N4O2 · 23/02/2018 10:34

Even if all of the lodgers are related and make up one household, which is unlikely

Again you are making assumptions with no evidence. For all you know it could be a couple with an adult child renting three rooms for more space (I have known this to happen). Why do you insist on assuming the worst when the only factual point the OP has made is that he isn't contributing to the child?

My comments have NOTHING to do with a person living in a HA

And yet all these threads go the same way. Anyone in HA has all the negative assumptions made about them and never any benefit of the doubt. We have people posting that living in HA is a benefit subsidised by the tax payer (a straight lie regularly repeated here).

We have people being berated for having houses that are too big rather than the complaint being directed at the lack of suitable smaller accommodation to move into since the big sell off.

I've seen the same people bleating at how unfair it is that the proverbial elderly widow has to move out of her 5 bedroom family house and that she should be subsidised by the tax payer to stay there if she is an owner - no expectation of downsizing for owner occupiers.

Every thread on HA goes pretty much the same way.

LoveInTokyo · 23/02/2018 10:52

C8H10N4O2 Did you read the link about HMOs?

If he has three lodgers living with him who are unrelated to him then he is running an HMO and needs a licence to do so. If he doesn’t have an HMO licence then he is breaking the law.

And the OP’s point is perfectly valid, as far as I can see. He is not paying maintenance for his child because he is not working, and he is not working because he is getting sufficient income from his three lodgers to avoid the need to work. He is almost certainly running an illegal HMO because it is extremely unlikely that the council would grant him an HMO licence to have three lodgers in a three bedroom property.

QuiteLikely5 · 23/02/2018 10:55

This will vary from area to area. Call the housing office up and ask them,

Then decide if you want to report him.

He is also commiting benefit fraud by not declaring his income

FreudianSlurp · 23/02/2018 11:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

crunchymint · 23/02/2018 11:33

Op has already said he is not on benefits.
Yes his house is probably a HMO so should be registered.

crunchymint · 23/02/2018 11:38

My parents are in a council house and want to move to a small property. The only other properties smaller are flats in blocks of 3 to 4 floors with no lift. They are getting older so want somewhere with no stairs to climb - my mum already has arthritis so this is sensible. The bottom flats are very difficult to get as they come with a garden so understandably tend to be given to single parents with 1 child. There is actually a real lack of social housing outside London that is built for single people or couples. The vast majority is built for families. Even the flats, which there are few of, are built with 2 bedrooms. My parents are in a 3 bedroom house.

sashh · 23/02/2018 11:39

I AM allowed to do this with my HA property, however the maximum number of people is limited to 4 including me, contact the HA and ask them what their rules are.

Mummyoflittledragon · 23/02/2018 11:48

If he doesn’t claim benefits and he doesn’t work, how is he supposed to live?

FreudianSlurp · 23/02/2018 11:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

ThisLittleKitty · 23/02/2018 12:25

By renting out the rooms clearly. He gets £2000 a month he has told me this. He is choosing not to work. The lodgers are not related. There are more one beds in london than anything else he does not want to downsize though which is his choice.

OP posts:

Aprilshowerswontbelong · 23/02/2018 12:28

If he is legitimately earning this money then cms can get you some cash then can't they?!

Tawdrylocalbrouhaha · 23/02/2018 12:39

I don't see why there would be a problem with renting the rooms, unless the lead specifically prohibits this.

However the income from the lodgers would definitely be above the amount which can go undeclared under the Rent A Room scheme, and also above his personal tax exemption. He should therefore be declaring if and paying tax on it (you can report to HMRC if not), and it should be considered by the CMS.

Although if it is all cash under the table, you won't be able to prove any of that, and the sums involved are so small nobody is likely to investigate, I'm afraid.

Original poster

ThisLittleKitty · 23/02/2018 12:42

Yeh think it is cash in hand :(

OP posts:

HonkyWonkWoman · 23/02/2018 12:58

Why is he telling you how much rent he is getting if he knows that you will want CMS involved.
He's either very stupid or wants to wind you up!
Also if he getting cash in hand there is very little chance that HMRC would get involved as there would be no digital or paper trail. They wouldn't waste their time on someone who they couldn't actualey prove was renting. He could just say that he had friends staying.

NeedsAsockamnesty · 23/02/2018 13:04

Why Would you expect the CMS to know anything about the legalities of a tenancy?

My local area will issue HMO paperwork with very minimal rules or intervention.
And they have been known to put HA tenants hoping for a lodger or two in touch with people seeking homelessness advice. Having 4 adults living in a 3 bed HA house around here is not unusual it’s also perfectly within the rules to do so providing consent has been gained from the HA.
The main HA’s around me will allow up to 4 adults inc the tenant in a 3 bed if it also has a living room.

Original poster

ThisLittleKitty · 23/02/2018 13:07

I think he enjoys winding me up about it as he knows nothing can be done about it. He use to say things like "why would I bother working when I get the same as my friend who works (x) amount of hours a week" I also did some digging and managed to find out his spare room add a while ago. He told me all this a while ago when we were getting on and he said he would start paying for our kids but he either wouldn't or I would practically have to beg for it. However now we are not on speaking terms I have no issues with going to the Cms which is what I did and that's when they told me it was illegal. Looks like nothing can be done then.

OP posts:

Original poster

ThisLittleKitty · 23/02/2018 13:09

Where did I say I expected them to know. I called them to see if what he gets could be claimed as maintenance and I was told no because it's illegal. I was calling to see if he is getting an income why can't it be taken into consideration they said no because it's illegal when I asked but what if he pays tax for it I was told he wouldn't be again because "it's illegal."

OP posts:

Flip

1 2 3 4 5 6 7