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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Is this allowed?

162 replies

ThisLittleKitty · 22/02/2018 13:28

Does anyone know if this is allowed. Ex doesn't work or pay maintenance. He lives in a 3 bed housing association and rents out the rooms in the house (sleeps in the living room on the sofa so rents out 3 bedroom.) This gets him enough to live without having to work. He says he is allowed to do it and he has permission from the HA but when I spoke to the Cms and explained to them what he does and asked if they could take money from that, they said it was illegal and he want actually allowed to do it so they wouldn't be able to take any money from him. I'm not sure who is right as when I was younger my mum use to have a
Lodger and rent the box room out to him and she said it was allowed, she just had to pay a small amount to the council. Anyone know?

OP posts:

Originalfoogirl · 22/02/2018 14:47

Given the very fist line is about how your Ex isn't paying maintenance, isn't the question you are really asking "should I report my ex to the HA for breaking the rules as a retaliation for him not doing what he should"?

Original poster

ThisLittleKitty · 22/02/2018 14:47

He's not on benefits.

OP posts:

Bluelady · 22/02/2018 14:49

His bloody house is a benefit. He doesn't need it. I so, so want the bastard to be evicted.

saladdays66 · 22/02/2018 14:50

Report him. Why should he have been allowed to inherit a three-bed HA property? There are loads of other people who actually need it, and who are prepared to work to pay their way at the same time?

He won't be paying tax on any of the illegal cash he's made.

Scumbag.

Lovethebubbles · 22/02/2018 14:51

He’s not subletting if he’s living there as well. Most HA’s allow renting to lodgers. As long as he isn’t claiming benefit to pay his rent, or if he is he would need to disclose the rent payments as income.
Renting rooms out is one way to survive the bedroom tax reduction. To keep your property affordable and to avoid homelessness.
If he wanted to downsize he could probably approach the local council and he would be prioritised for a smaller property as they are probably in desperate need for family sized accommodation. Or he could try and do a swap through the housing association.
This is the difficulty with assured tenancies. Great security for the person living there, but doesn’t make best use of the housing stock when family set up change.

FreudianSlurp · 22/02/2018 14:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DeathStare · 22/02/2018 14:53

CMS have no way of knowing whether it's allowed or not unless they have read his rental contract (unlikely!)

I completely understand why this is frustrating, I really do. But what do you hope to gain from reporting him? I mean it doesn't sound like he's the type who if his lodgers were forced to leave would say "oh well then I'll go and get an above-board job and pay child support". So chances are whether you reported him or not you would end up no better off. Lodgers or no lodgers, I don't think it's going to make any difference to whether you get any child support.

He also may well guess it was you who reported and could make life difficult.

Does your DC have overnight contact? If so I'd want to know where they were sleeping. In fact, if your DC goes to the house at all I'd want to know what the arrangements were for who cares for them while they were there.

Graphista · 22/02/2018 14:56

He'd likely be evicted for breaking tenancy rules. No HA I know would be happy about this. Also report to hmrc highly likely he's breaking rules there too.

grannytomine · 22/02/2018 14:56

If he isn't working I doubt he is making enough to pay tax after the additional rent a room allowance.

Bluelady · 22/02/2018 14:58

Death, if he was evicted a family who really needs that property could live in it, isn't that a good reason? PM me his details and I'll tell the HA in a heartbeat. This is the kind of situation that really boils my piss - can you guess?!

lovemylover · 22/02/2018 15:03

I live in a 3 bedroo,med HA house and i have no intention of moving,
I have lived her for 35 years, and i will stay here until iand if i cant manage it,
My family live away and stay in my spare bedrooms when they visit
I am not going to be shuffled into a 1 bed flat,
I have my animals too, which might not be allowed in a flat,
If i was offered a nice bungalow in an are i liked i might consider, but would still need at least 2 bedrooms
They cant make me move, and why should anyone give their almost life long home up,which is very secure, and safe in a nice area
Just because people get old why should they be not cared about and just put anywhere, if they dont want to be
The Government need to build more houses after selling off council houses

Bluelady · 22/02/2018 15:07

With the greatest respect, lovemylover, your situation isn't remotely comparable.

ILostItInTheEarlyNineties · 22/02/2018 15:09

He's making enough money from his lodgers to live fairly comfortably?
Why the fuck isn't he giving some of that to his child?
What a wanker.

DeathStare · 22/02/2018 15:17

Don't get me wrong.... if he's breaking the rules then he shouldn't be doing it. And I'm not saying necessarily not to report him. (but he way well not be breaking any rules)

I'm just saying that if the OP thinks reporting him will mean she starts getting child support, she needs to be realistic - it's not likely to make any difference to that at all. And he won't be evicted (well, it's highly unlikely)- he'll just be told to stop. And if the OP has an otherwise OK relationship with him reporting him could blow that permanently (and she could end up with a difficult relationship with him for years to come). I'm not saying necessarily not to do it, just that (IMO) the OP personally doesn't have anything she could gain by reporting him, and could potentially.

As a tangent, I think we also need to think about who we see as deserving and undeserving of housing. I recently had a single, childless friend (very vulnerable because of MH issues) who was made homeless because they were the lowest priority on the housing waiting list and because private landlords insisted on charging way more than their housing benefit for a room in a shared house so they couldn't afford it. There are plenty of vulnerable single people with no way of getting housing. Perhaps his lodgers are in a similar position.

APontypandyPioneer · 22/02/2018 15:19

I'm sure examples like that are in no doubt contributing to the housing crisis. That could be used to house a homeless family which I'm sure is what social housing is intended for. It's not meant for someone to use it as a meal ticket.

Depending on his tenancy it might well be permitted to have a lodger especially if it was handed to him from his mother. Tenancies these days tend to be much stricter to ensure this kind of thing doesn't happen.

But if he is renting out each room and has more than 3 tenants (which I suppose he does being he lives in the living room) he is making it a HMO which comes with its own rules and regulations.

If you want to make life hard for him let the council and his HA know. Maybe even HMRC for a bit of untaxed income. I think I would in your situation because how damn cheeky.

crunchymint · 22/02/2018 15:21

Yes street homeless people are nearly always single and childless because they are not entitled to any help.

Spoog1971xx · 22/02/2018 15:22

Which HA is it? Look on their website . Most of them have a big warning about tenancy fraud etc. I'd be very very surprised if a single man is allowed to not occupy a room and rent it out for a profit. He's lying. A granny with a lodger in a box room is one thing but NO HA would allow this.

Snowysky20009 · 22/02/2018 15:23

Our HA do allow it. They have asked my mum a few times to 'rent a room out' but she refuses.

Graphista · 22/02/2018 15:24

Lovemy - sorry. But I think you're unreasonable too. It may be your home but it is NOT your house. It was built that size and for that organisation NOT for a single person to inhabit. There are as pp said families of 3+ living in one room when it's not necessary as there ARE suitable properties like yours available. YOUR choice - not a right - to have pets too.

Yes there needs to be more stock built but ALSO we need to be managing existing stock appropriately.

myrtleWilson · 22/02/2018 15:26

I think it was when Grant Shapps was Housing Minister that he encouraged flexibility on letting RP tenants take in lodgers so just because he's doing that doesn't mean he is acting illegally. There may be an issue around income declarations - but that is separate to the act of taking in the lodger.
Re the size of the property - on succession to a tenancy the landlord can seek possession if they feel the property is too large for him - clearly the landlord decided at that point they weren't going to take that action (or perhaps it was felt/suggested that others were going to live with him)

OP - I think you're only avenue is really the income declared and its relationship to CMS - sorry but I hope he sorts himself out and pays what is due.

user1474652148 · 22/02/2018 15:30

It is my understanding that subletting rooms is fraud. Report him - it carries a custodial sentence if it reaches a certain threshold.

Lovemusic33 · 22/02/2018 15:33

I’m not sure why people think his house is a benefit, he pays full rent? Isn’t claiming HB? I do the same with my house, my rent is t much cheaper than renting privately (around £600 per month). Some HA will let you take lodgers and if you think about it this helps reduce the number of people looking for a HA house/flat, not saying I agree with what he is doing though as he is making money out of a property that is not his, if the money was just going towards the rent then it would be no different than him moving a partner in? The fact he’s making enough money that he doesn’t have to work seems wrong.

APontypandyPioneer · 22/02/2018 15:34

@deathstare it's true that vulnerable single people are at the bottom of the pile as it were, but not sure that living in a situation like that is helpful either. If it is considered an HMO and isn't licensed it could potentially be unsafe. Also an unregulated landlord puts a vulnerable person at greater risk.

I appreciate in some cases it is the only option for many single people and between that and sleeping on the streets I know what I would choose (unregulated landlord please)

Sadly until there are more houses built and something is done about all the empty houses purchased as investments it will be a continuing story.

Still I think OP has a duty to report such situation if not for the maintenance money for the welfare of the occupants who as we agree are probably vulnerable.

crunchymint · 22/02/2018 15:37

Yes it is less than ideal for people renting the rooms. But I have rented a flat illegally sublet because I could not find anywhere I could afford.

ratspeaker · 22/02/2018 15:41

The HA may allow having long dgers but I very much doubt they'd condone overcrowding which it sounds like if he's sleeping in the living room. Not sure if 3 lodgers would make it an HMO.

But we random strangers on the internet don't know the terms of his tenancy.
Or if he has claimed a discount for council tax as single person
Or is declaring his income to HMRC

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