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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Is this allowed?

162 replies

ThisLittleKitty · 22/02/2018 13:28

Does anyone know if this is allowed. Ex doesn't work or pay maintenance. He lives in a 3 bed housing association and rents out the rooms in the house (sleeps in the living room on the sofa so rents out 3 bedroom.) This gets him enough to live without having to work. He says he is allowed to do it and he has permission from the HA but when I spoke to the Cms and explained to them what he does and asked if they could take money from that, they said it was illegal and he want actually allowed to do it so they wouldn't be able to take any money from him. I'm not sure who is right as when I was younger my mum use to have a
Lodger and rent the box room out to him and she said it was allowed, she just had to pay a small amount to the council. Anyone know?

OP posts:
Notasunnybunny · 22/02/2018 15:42

This is what is wrong with the system in my mind. These things should be about making housing available to those who need it ie a family who would benefit from a 3 bed home, I don’t think anyone should be ‘entitled’ to remain in a subsidised property beyond when the need it. Unless you can afford to rent privately or buy then there is a social and moral obligation to step aside, move into something smaller and allow the next family to have the benefit of the same chance you had, this should be forced if necessary. No wonder there are so many families facing over crowding, desperate for affordable housing when there are idiots like this in the world.

TripTrapTripTrapOverTheBridge · 22/02/2018 15:44

Most HAs and councils allow tenants to have lodgers. That is perfectly legal. Any other form of letting is not.

DeathStare · 22/02/2018 15:45

Still I think OP has a duty to report such situation if not for the maintenance money for the welfare of the occupants who as we agree are probably vulnerable

And how would that help them? They would be evicted and be street homeless.

I completely agree with you that unscrupulous landlords like this are not the answer, this needs to be addressed on a much bigger scale. But as you said you'd take the illegal unscrupulous landlord over street homelessness (me too!) and if these lodgers are in that position it's just taking that option away from them.

However these lodgers may well not be in that position and might just be benefitting from the cheap (probably doubt cash in hand) rent arrangement he's offering them.

As I said before I'm not saying necessarily don't report Just that I don't think the OP is going to gain anything out of it, and to be honest I don't think that society in general is going to gain out of it (ie it's not likely to free-up housing). And it could end up with a worse situation all round (ie possibly vulnerable people being made homeless and possibly ruining any civil relationship the OP has with her ex).

I can completely get why she would want to report him though and why he deserves it (IF he is breaking rules). I think it's a really tough decision.

I'd come back to my original questions though. If he's having contact with the DC at his house, if I was the OP I'd be more concerned about what the arrangements were for them within the house.

ivehadtonamechangeforthis · 22/02/2018 15:45

He's a cheeky fucker! Of course he's NOT allowed to do that!

Council/Housing Association housing is 'affordable' so the people listed on the tenancy can 'afford' to live somewhere, it's not intended so you can sublet and make enough money so you don't have to work! How the hell did he get a three bed place?

I would contact the HA and tell them.

chocolateworshipper · 22/02/2018 15:45

According to CAB, "Subletting happens when an existing tenant lets all or part of their home to someone else."

And they have this guidance about HA tenant subletting: www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/renting-a-home/subletting-and-lodging/subletting/unlawful-subletting-of-social-housing-criminal-offences/

nellieellie · 22/02/2018 15:46

If he lives there, and takes money for rooms, they may just be lodgers. Sometimes, lodgers are allowed. Renting out the entire flat to a tenant would be creating a tenancy. That would no t be allowed.

ivehadtonamechangeforthis · 22/02/2018 15:46

I doubt very much he's told the HA!

LanaorAna2 · 22/02/2018 15:47

A lot of confusion on this thread. Three issues here:

  1. Housing Assn may not allow ex to sublet or have lodgers - he is subletting even if he lives there, but it's whether that partic HA allows subs or lodgers that determine if he's breaking their rules or not. I would suspect not, or certainly not that many. They may just write to him to tell him to stop - eviction isn't likely.
  1. He's not declaring the rent to HMRC and is dodging tax if he makes more than 11k a year from everything he does.
  1. CMS need to be told that ex is not declaring income, etc., but they'll wait till HMRC pronounce on the subject.

So call CMS and think about shopping him for the other 2 probs. Either way, you won't get any more maintenance for the foreseeable, and you may not get any more at all.

You will have far worse relations with the father of your child, though, that's the only guarantee.

NeedsAsockamnesty · 22/02/2018 15:49

It’s more usual for a HA to allow lodgers if properly declared that it is for them to not allow it providing it doesn’t make the occupancy to high which 4 adults in a 3 bed usually wouldn’t.
However the rent he receives is income and should be correctly declared

purpleleotard · 22/02/2018 15:49

is he declaring this income to HMRC?

Notasunnybunny · 22/02/2018 15:50

Lovemy - sorry. But I think you're unreasonable too. It may be your home but it is NOT your house. It was built that size and for that organisation NOT for a single person to inhabit. There are as pp said families of 3+ living in one room when it's not necessary as there ARE suitable properties like yours available. YOUR choice - not a right - to have pets too.

^This x1000

Oddly so many people in this situation will claim to be politically left wing despite the fact they are the very embodiment of the opposite values. If everyone took what they needed not as much as they could grab and hold onto there would be enough for everyone. Such sad selfishness.

LanaorAna2 · 22/02/2018 15:52

Come come, there's an awful lot of grabby galz on this thread. Having children is a choice - your parents dying before you hit 21 isn't.

ILostItInTheEarlyNineties · 22/02/2018 15:55

Is he declaring his income?

Of course he isn't, otherwise CMS could deduct some for child maintenance.

Mummyoflittledragon · 22/02/2018 15:56

He’s not on benefits and he doesn’t work. That doesn’t make sense. Who pays his rent, bills food etc?

Notasunnybunny · 22/02/2018 16:01

Mummy- he can probably rent each room for about as much as his subsidised rent, nice little earner I bet. Plus no nasty tax to pay. He is a taker. People like this are stealing from society, they are stealing from the most vulnerable and the poorest. He puts nothing in, only takes, he doesn’t even give to his own child. ........ but hey let’s just tax the rich more and that’ll solve everything

crunchymint · 22/02/2018 16:05

The rent is not subsidised.

Bluelady · 22/02/2018 16:08

Of course the rent's subsidised, that why HAs let at affordable rents, i.e. below market rents.

Bramble71 · 22/02/2018 16:08

Snitch on him. He's abusing a house that really should be in the hands of a family. All so that he doesn't have to work! I wouldn't even hesitate to report him anonymously to the housing association. I very much doubt a housing association would agree to subletting all 3 bedrooms of a 3 bed house.

crunchymint · 22/02/2018 16:11

Private lets usually come carpeted/floored and in much better condition than much social housing.

XmasInTintagel · 22/02/2018 16:16

Private lets usually come carpeted/floored and in much better condition than much social housing
Some is better, and some is not, and the rent is proportional to how nice it is...but there's plenty of grim private rental accommodation.

Adarajames · 22/02/2018 16:18

It's not subletting is he still lives there, and some tenancies allow renting of rooms, i.e. Having lodgers, mine does, but there may be a limit on number of unrelated adults allowed to be living there.

Mummyoflittledragon · 22/02/2018 16:19

Notasunnybunny
Perhaps not each room. But he’s deffo making money over and above his rental amount. Dh and I pay tens of thousands in tax to house this piece of scum. I’d shop him in a heartbeat. But I get I’m in a very different position from op.

Bluelady · 22/02/2018 16:20

I've seen some totally shit private lets with extortionate rents. And a single man should not be allocated a three bed social housing property, especially when families are homeless. The whole thing's outrageous.

TheQueef · 22/02/2018 16:27

Where's Helena when she's needed?

Our LA still makes a profit on their stock.

PaperdollCartoon · 22/02/2018 16:27

@Bluelady Common misconception. HA tenancies aren’t linked to benefits or considered a benefit, once you have the tenancy you have it until you give it up, regardless of your circumstances. You could get the tenancy when you’re earning nothing and highest priority, if you then do really well and end up earning £100,000 there’s no requirement to give the property up.