To want to say F*** off to all the Beaver parents and throw the towel in?

[DippyScout]

Sorry sounds dramatic but my goodness I am at my wits end. I run a very well established Beaver group. I work bloody hard to make sure we have vibrant, engaging and exciting activities every week that link to all the badges and all children can achieve in. I reckon in total I put around 4-5 hours a week into the admin, setting up, running etc of this colony, all for the sake of the 20 Beavers who come each week and really enjoy it. I am a volunteer, a volunteer who has a full time job, children of my own, many other commitments. I do this because I really believe it benefits the children and I adore the children.... however their parents - well that's another thing! On large they simultaneously refuse to help out or support, but expect the moon on a stick and constantly complain and whinge. I have some parents who will help out when asked, but others, particularly a couple of them, who are causing me so much hassle I am tempted to throw the towel in. I don't want to kick their children out (lovely children who love the group) but the parents complain continuously about the nature, style of activities not being badge focused enough (all activities built around badges), complain if I organise trips, complain that we've made the group more inclusive (apparently they don't 'pay' (voluntary subs) for their children to not have full attention), and the list goes on. Over the years I have noticed volunteer support from parents dropping each year, and less and less support. I am a volunteer, it is wearing me down! My children have been and gone from Beavers, I only now do this because I enjoyed it. I've spoken to them, addressed issues clearly and firmly, but they are sapping all the joy from this role! I've been doing this for over 5 years and right now I want to throw the towel in!

Hi DippyScout. I could have written your post many times in the last 20-odd years (weird to say when you're only 37!!) I can only offer advice and say what has worked for us/me in various situations.
As Cub/Beaver Leader I have enforced a parent rota. The programme is published in our FB group with 1 or 2 kids names next to each night. If an adult from that family (mom/dad/grandma/uncle/etc) can't attend then it is up to the parent to sort out a swap. I don't care if it's a straight swap for another night or they just get someone to take their place.
I also advertise other ways people can help instead of the rota. I have one parent who goes and fetches the badges for me from the badge sec as they pass their house. Another gets our Beaver snack/juice as they work in a shop. Someone has offered to do the badge admin but I can't let that go. Maybe you could spread the load?
If they miss their rota twice without any effort to swap or help out, then the kids are bumped. It's harsh as it's not the kids fault but as I offer plenty of other avenues to help out and I have a waiting list, it's the best way I can handle it. I make it VERY clear in my welcome pack what is expected of both the kids and the families.
As GSL I have had to have The Talk to the Scouts once as two of them were being very disruptive and rude. Laying it all out, the time, effort, money, energy, everything that the volunteers put into every week. I followed that up with a message to all the parents outlining the same. I got apologies and the idiots left. I stepped in as the SL had had enough and nothing was working so they asked me for help.
You need to speak to your GSL. They should be fielding the parent emails, and backing you up all the way. I would forward the emails to them and let them deal with it. I agree, when it stops being fun then take a break, but do remember they are only with you for two years. That's 6 terms. And usually the next lot are soooooo much nicer in comparison!!! Feel free to message me if you want to chat. Xx

camperwidow sounds like you run a tight ship! And rightly so.

It is sad, but I am not surprised to read how many people have quit due to parents. I am a Brownie leader (15 years) At the moment I am really lucky most of my parents are really supportive - they are told very often that we are volunteer as are the girls!

In the past I to had a group of parents who were all friends who almost drove me out of guiding by criticising so much. Luckily I lasted until they moved on and I am now glad I did.

Things I have done:
At camp parents meetings made it clear we are volunteers (by thanking my fellow volunteers) and saying that camp would not go ahead without them
Also thanking regular helpers - same
Welcome to my brownie pack letter given out again explains we are all volunteers
My young leaders (guides) have been a life saver on nights I have had helpers cancel at last minute and I have had to run evenings on my own.

I go our of my way to than any supportive parents, especially if I get a thank you text (more often now)saying how much I appreciate it.
Occasionally we will get the opportunity for a trip where I can only take a few girls, I offer the spaces to daughters of helpers and to the girls who's parents are most supportive
Girls of leaders are given the opportunity to stay on as young leaders when they are to old for Brownies - they love running the games and becoming one of the leaders. Added bonus it keeps the parent as a helper.
I too to complaining parents have suggested that the child move on if they are not happy / we can not offer what they need
Set up a system with fund raising that trips and outings are subsidised just for girls (with parents) who turn up - this overnight increased support for bag packing from less than 25% to 95%. It is made clear parents have a choice turn up to the fund raising or pay the full cost - I try to provide the fund raising opportunities to keep trips inclusive but can not do it without the parents and girls. Again fund raising letters explain 100% of money goes back to girls as we are volunteers

With regard to helpers - if someone is forced to help and comes with the wrong attitude it add more problems than it solves. Again if a critical parent comes along (which I have had), they criticised all night and I almost gave them my keys saying if you can do better please do..

We now have subs by standing order - easier for me. They are made aware on joining that is the process, we have just set up a facebook site which should help us

I have lost count of the number of occasions over the years I have put lots of time and effort into organising a lovely event only to have no one say thank you but a text on my return home saying how a child was unhappy due to something minor - totally demotivating

At Christmas and the end of the summer term our paid teachers and teaching assistants have so many gifts bought for them (not saying at all that they do not deserve them and I have seen from my daughters teachers how many unpaid hour they put in). How many parents think to buy for a volunteer scout or guide leader (I was the only one who bought for my daughters Rainbow leader) ?? It is not about the gifts a thank you for all you do is amazing.

I have come through the bad time we had and now have more excellent volunteers and mostly supportive parents, but can totally understand why OP would feel like they are not willing to keep taking all the hassle for a voluntary position

Op I hope things get better and some of the ideas on here help, only give up if you want to do not let a group of parents drive you out as they will move on and more supportive parents will come along.

For those saying get your GSl or District commissioner involved, i'm glad you have a supportive GSL and or District comissioner, sadly i do not, our GSL couldn't care less about the beavers (except the chief scouts bronze award bit!) or it's leaders, is only interested in scouts.
I am thinking of stepping down, not actually because of the parents, though some over the years have been over entitled beep beep beeps!, but because of the politics and awful unsupportive GSL, and the beavers this time are not well behaved and i dread everytime i go now! I am at a point where i don't care if it folds, though i know it won't as it'll fall all on one lovely leader who puts so much time and effort in!

I would say that you’ve done your bit for the community, and now it’s time to let somebody else take over the reins. I bet it won’t be any of the whinging parents! I would write a letter to the parents explaining your reason for quitting, however by the sounds of things these people very probably wouldn’t accept that they were to blame and would use your decision to leave as another excuse to moan!
I think you’d feel an enormous burden has been lifted if you did decide to call it a day, and I’m sure there are plenty of things that you could spend the time doing with your own children.

I've read all of the posts and the one thing that I think you might be able to do (with the permission of the GSL of course) is to implement a late collection fee (which, could be re-directed back into the colony). Any time a parent is late, they have to pay a set fee for each 10 minutes (or part thereof) they are late. Say £2 for the first 10 mins and if they are 30 minutes late they have to pay £10.
I think the only way that you're going to get the tardy parents to collect their children is if they are hit in the pocket for being late.
If you collect enough money, it could go towards new kit for the colony or party materials for a camping trip or whatever. You're not offering a child minding service, you're trying to run a Beaver troupe and this might focus their minds. It might even make them think that they don't want to send their kids anymore, which frees up a space for someone who does want to be there and who won't take you for granted and complain.

Keep on going!

I'm glad you are turning things around, the late picking up is shocking!

Maybe manning the late pickups could be part of the volunteer rota, they'll soon stop!

Throw the towel in!

Are you looking for some kind of praise and affirmation from parents because you're not being paid? It's your choice to be a volunteer, you're not obligated to be one. You may do this because you believe it benifits the children but it is down to the parents to determine what is best for the child in terms of activities. If a parent comes to you with feedback you should be taking this on board as they know their child best and have entrusted their care to you! Just because you are a volunteer does not mean they should lower their expectations in terms of their childs care and needs. You seem to be working under the assumption that all parents realize there is a requirment to volunteer however this is not made clear when signing up or in scouting information. Parents have other commitments, childcare needs, health issues etc. Should their child not attend? You seem to be working under the negative assumption that parents who dont volunteer are lazy. Maybe you need to have an open dialouge with these parents and not be offended when they say something you do not want to hear. Your view is not more valid than theirs just because you're a volunteer! Parents views might get on your nerves but keep in mind they have their childrens best interests at heart.

I have two children at beavers and when I ask them what they get up to all I hear is that they're playing dodgeball. I have never been asked to volunteer, I had no idea this was an expectation. I have never had any information regarding the earning of badges. My children have been on a few camps and have been bullied and assualted by other children. I have provided feedback to the leader after these incidents however after reading your post today I have serious concerns that my views in my childs safety, well being and developed mental needs may be ignored by "volunteers" such as yourself.

Our Guide leader feels the same as you. I feel sad that it got that way. It’s too easy to not respond to group e-mails, or think ‘oh well, I helped before, someone else will do it’. Especially with a teen who is reluctant to have Mum around. We parents are trying to up our game.

To the posters saying they can't help because...kids, work, time....

Well I wouldn’t have the time or will ! But then again I avoid volunteer ran activities for this reason . I can’t face the guilt

I really like the idea of a kick start with new rules and mandatory help . Maybe stop now and restart in sept with new rules in place ?

I was a Beaver Leader for 2 years, have been a Cub Leader for 3 and you have my sympathy! I couldn't do all this work without the support of my team (other leaders, Section Assistants etc).

Sadly I doubt that these parents are suddenly going to realise how unreasonable they are being and appreciate your hard work.

Why not write to all the parents of Beaver aged children on your waiting list? Explain that due to high demand, you can only offer a place to a child whose parent is willing to become an Assistant Leader (not a Leader; you'll never get any interest!). Offer a free trial session for a child and their parent. Or organise an event (Jamboree on the Trail, games in the park etc) and invite parents to attend that way. You might get no interest, but there wouldn't be much future for your colony anyway. With any luck, you'll get a couple of parents joining you, and every time you have another place available you repeat the exercise until you get a good handful of parents who are willing to wear uniform or at least be Section Assistants.

You will feel part of a team, and can plan a programme together with these new parents, and you shouldn't feel so much that the negative parents are targeting you personally so much.

Do you use OSM? It saves hours and is money well spent by your group. I send out my programme to my Cub parents, and allow them a few days to choose which session they want to help out - telling them I will choose for them if they don't get in quick! That usually focusses their minds!

Good luck. Xx

I'm so sad for you, OP. My DD is now in Brownies having gone through Rainbows and also does a sporting activity run by volunteers. I think they are amazing, I regularly tell them do and thank them, in writing and face to face and I am so damn grateful for the opportunities and experiences they give my daughter.

Volunteers are amazing and should feel valued for what they put in. I'm sorry you don't.

BigDaddyFox
It doesn't sound like your 2 children enjoy beavers, why are you continuing to send them? If I thought my children had been assaulted at a beavers camp, there is no way I'd continue to send them to weekly Beavers meeting
You sound quite clueless regarding what Beavers etc entails. You seriously had no idea that gaining badges and parental involvement / volunteering were a big part of Scouts/ Beavers/GG. Wow!!

@DippyScout

I would not put up with parents being late to pick up their child

Take them aside & explain that you need to pick up your own children & any further instances will mean that the child will be dropped off at the police station on your way

@BigDaddyFox
I sincerely hope you did something when your DC were assaulted at Beavers.

I am involved in Guiding rather than Scouting but cases of assault and bullying are taken very seriously.
It doesn't sound like your Beaver unit is the best run, but if your opinion of the leaders is so low you think they would ignore an assault, that's quite alarming

I'm an ABSL and all I can say after reading the thread is and to all of you who are at the end of your tether. I am so lucky. Our colony has lovely parents, very supportive GSL, District and County and the kids are great. Some are handfuls but the change when they 'get' it is amazing. We leave out a rota with the programme at the start of every term so parents can choose to help at something they like or have experience in, and explain to newbies that we will do badges through the year but can't do all of them, so if they want to look on the website and do one with their DC and get them signed off then we'd be delighted, and even more so if they can do one with all of the Beavers!

I'm also a Cub parent so I get to volunteer twice! (Beavers, despite the Yell, are definitely quieter... and much less cheeky) Take care, and nil carborundum etc etc.

BigDaddy I'm sorry but your attitude has made me cross (setting aside the assault issues!) I am not there to be at the whim of these parents who expect me to change the whole group to ensure their children get badges they've not met yet (mainly cause they didn't attend those sessions) or treat me as a childminder. I am neither! I run a great and very successful group with a huge waiting list of children wanting to start. The programme is planned on a two year rolling programme to ensure all Beavers are able to get all main badges if they attend. We have special guests teaching new skills in at least every half term, go on trips, go camping etc. We play dodgeball but that's the rarity, rather than the norm. I always listen to constructive feedback and send a survey questionnaire to parents at least twice a year to make sure I'm meeting their children's needs. But when a parent complains that I've let a child in with special needs which distracts from their child (actually this child is a joy to have!) I get cross!

This thread should be compulsory reading for all parents who have their kids in any scouting group. I'm now worried I never thanked my children's leaders enough but I did help out regularly (even though being with kids is not my forte - I was more comfortable preparing the snacks and washing up) and never complained. Parents are kind of aware that these things are run by volunteers but probably don't realise the grief the ungrateful parents give them. It's very sad.

Particularly sad about the complaint re the special needs child: as if life with SEN weren't tough enough.

We stopped sending DS1 to Beavers as we couldn't deal with the constant guilt of being asked to volunteer.

At the time, I had a newborn, we both worked full time, and we had barely any money. So Beavers was a nice cheap activity for DS1 to do, as we couldn't afford any other after school activities.

Every week when we picked up, we got an earful from the leader that she was a volunteer, and she didn't have time for this, and she couldn't get any parents to volunteer either, and their excuses of they didn't have time..well...she didn't have time either.

After a while we used to run in, grab DS1 and run out again before we could get another ear bashing.

We didn't sign up to volunteering when he joined?

The last straw was we were asked to go to Mothering Sunday (getting up at 8am or some silly time) on Mother's Day. No ta. So I said we couldn't attend as we had other plans that day. Very shitty response was I shouldn't bother sending DS to beavers then if I couldn't make the Church parade.

We then got an email saying 'thanks to the 2 parents that could be bothered to show up at Church on Sunday'.

We never went back.

So although, I would NEVER be so entitled and spoilt to complain/criticise anyone who volunteers, and we were always grateful that they gave up their time....the other side of the fence is that we thought it was a nice weekly child activity to do. Not some guilt tripping volunteering, church going stuff.

SO that's why DD and DS2 won't be doing it.

I think there's a general unwillingness to volunteer everywhere (so much for David Cameron's "big society" ).

My parents did a huge amount of voluntary work (both worked full time), either in the same activities we did or something completely different.

Many activities for ages 5-7 parents end up hanging around (swimming, gymnastics, dance etc) so it's not unreasonable to ask parents to help run the activities rather than dump and run.

glut I absolutely appreciate what you've written and would never hassle the parents, from my perspective I want parents there who want to be there, and not to complain (though I don't mine having constructive conversations). We do need help on trips so then I expect parents who can to step up - but the only conversation I ever have with parents at the end of a session is about how great their kid has been in that session! I'm sorry you felt that pressure, as that's not right either, and I'm sorry your DCs are missing out because of that.
I find it ironic that we constantly talk about mutual respect in Beavers, but we as adults, both parents and leaders, often disregard that mutual respect! This thread has allowed me to vent, but also made me think about I communicate better both with the difficult and not do difficult parents!

OP I feel your pain - and that of others who are in similar positions.

However while I feel BigDaddyFox may have not been very kind with parts of their comment, I think this part is key
Parents have other commitments, childcare needs, health issues etc. Should their child not attend? You seem to be working under the negative assumption that parents who dont volunteer are lazy

Please can you all stop judging parents who can't help out. And please don't try to enforce parent rotas.

Yes - I know that some of you have busy stressful lives and still manage to help, but some people genuinely can't. The fact that you can, doesn't mean they can.

I work full time (long hours) and am a single parent. I have three kids who between them do 10 activities a week. I can't possibly help out at all their activities even once or twice a term. And I don't think it's fair to have children deprived of activities because their parents cannot or will not help.

The idea of "you can send any other adult" only works if someone has another (willing) adult to send. Many people don't.

"You can bring your other kids" only works if your other kids don't have activities. Or homework. Or bedtime. Or behavioural issues. And for some kids their time at brownies/cubs/swimming/gymnastics is their space away from their siblings.

Anyone who works long hours or who has multiple commitments may simply not have the time to devote to volunteering - however much they may like to.

Parents with disabilities (including hidden disabilities), mental health issues, chronic illness may not be able to volunteer no matter how much they may like to. Should they have to give full details of their condition to their children's football coach so that the football coach can make a decision about whether this excuses them from "volunteering" or otherwise their children will be kicked out.

Lots of services in all aspects of life could not run without volunteers- the food bank, many hospital wards, the Samaritans, Rape crisis, Women's Aid, parkrun, AA, community mental health groups. There's a local countryside station near me which could not run without the local volunteer group. Should it be expected that everyone who uses these services puts some volunteer hours into them or they are no loner allowed to use them? Even if that isn't where there skill set lies? Even if the thought fills them with dread and fear?

You an many others volunteer because you enjoy it and because you can find the time to do so. That's not the case for everyone.

I completely agree that parents need to stop whinging and demanding. If they don't like what's on offer then they should definitely take their child elsewhere. But please everyone, please stop condemning the parents who don't volunteer, or try to insist that they should.

I agree Deathstare.

It's partly down to websites and forums like this one, where you can always find support for whatever selfish, greedy, over-entitled point of view you profess to hold.

In your shoes I would simply tell the parents who whinge and complain that if they want a Beaver Group run precisely to their specifications that they should start one of their own. If they decline to do that then tell them to fuck off and leave you to run the group as you see fit. One or other of these tactics should rid you of these middle class arseholes.