To want to say F*** off to all the Beaver parents and throw the towel in?

[DippyScout]

Sorry sounds dramatic but my goodness I am at my wits end. I run a very well established Beaver group. I work bloody hard to make sure we have vibrant, engaging and exciting activities every week that link to all the badges and all children can achieve in. I reckon in total I put around 4-5 hours a week into the admin, setting up, running etc of this colony, all for the sake of the 20 Beavers who come each week and really enjoy it. I am a volunteer, a volunteer who has a full time job, children of my own, many other commitments. I do this because I really believe it benefits the children and I adore the children.... however their parents - well that's another thing! On large they simultaneously refuse to help out or support, but expect the moon on a stick and constantly complain and whinge. I have some parents who will help out when asked, but others, particularly a couple of them, who are causing me so much hassle I am tempted to throw the towel in. I don't want to kick their children out (lovely children who love the group) but the parents complain continuously about the nature, style of activities not being badge focused enough (all activities built around badges), complain if I organise trips, complain that we've made the group more inclusive (apparently they don't 'pay' (voluntary subs) for their children to not have full attention), and the list goes on. Over the years I have noticed volunteer support from parents dropping each year, and less and less support. I am a volunteer, it is wearing me down! My children have been and gone from Beavers, I only now do this because I enjoyed it. I've spoken to them, addressed issues clearly and firmly, but they are sapping all the joy from this role! I've been doing this for over 5 years and right now I want to throw the towel in!

DeathStare, I see your point but I wouldn't start giving the samaritans or the RNLI regular feedback on how they should be running things, which is the basis of the OP's issue

I have said from the start thought that giving petty negative feedback is just not on. That's just rude.

But insisting people volunteer is an entirely separate issue. It is perfectly possible to not be able to volunteer at your children's activities and still be polite and grateful to those who do

(And pretty much all voluntary organisations have both the lack of volunteers issue and the whingy feedback issue. YOU might not give feedback to the RNLI or Samaritans about how you think things could be run but plenty of people do).

And if not why the exception for beavers/cubs/scouts/guides/brownies?

Deathstare...err because there is a bit of difference between an extra curricular activity and a life saving organisation or charity that relieves suffering

I don't know why these things are free or just have subs. Its ridiculous.

I don't know why these things are free or just have subs. Its ridiculous

Because part of their ethos is about inclusivity?

I agree. They should charge proper rates. People don't value free things they just don't. Ridiculous seeing doctors and lawyers dropping their kids off for an activity provided by kind volunteers for free when they shell out for gym, piano etc etc.

Obviously should be free for low income. Sorry but in a capitalist society if its free this is what you end up with. Resentment and taking advantage. Wish it wasn't true but sadly it is.

“Proper” rates would go againsnt the ethos of Scouts etc

Why should they give in and adopt the lowest common denominator by charging the actual cost?

Perhaps we as a society should take a long hard look at ourselves and selfishness.

Thanks AnElderlyLady

Obviously my situation is a bit extreme. And only something ever talked about on forums never in RL.

Anyways. My mother was a beaver helper for about 10 years. She took it very seriously. In fact, she cared more about the beavers, than me! But, ‘jokes’ aside, parents were always very grateful. Waiting lists were huge though. Don’t remember the parents being asked to help.

With my voluntary groups, I did after school club every week, Summer camps, and a weekly group for children with muscular distrophy.

I enjoyed all of them, and parents were always very grateful.

But, I wonder where this entitlement comes from? Because although I couldn’t/didn’t attend church or volunteer, I wouldn’t dream of criticising anyone giving up their time.

We did have one more go at a different beaver group, and DH dropped DS1 off, and was literally begged to stay. So he did. Then as they left, the leader said, you’ll be back next week right?

Because we felt it would end up the same as before, feeling guilty etc, we didn’t go back.

Plus, where’s the background check? Surely you can’t just ask a parent to help out without knowing all the checks are done?

Whenever I first started helping out at school with trips etc, I had a check done.

Anyways OP. If you’re not enjoying it, it can’t be good.

DH used to work at a leisure centre many years ago, and he ran classes as part of his crappy wage. So many criticisms of ‘didn’t like the music’ ‘didn’t feel very motivated today’ ‘music too loud today’ ‘haven’t you got more current music’.

He’d take his own personal unpaid time to make classes better, and find better music etc, still they complained. It really got him down.

He also did free classes for kids, while mum and dad pounded away on treadmills or went swimming. The parents were always complaining about what they did or didn’t do. It’s a free class people!

So, you know, I get where you’re coming from.

You can have people help without a background check so long as it's not all the time. It would take forever to do every parent.

Feeling your pain from one beaver leader to another.

I bump those parents to the gsl who writes lovely but firm letters home and has quite firm (ex policeman) words and I no longer deal with their self centered actions. Otherwise I would be feeling the same way still.

Get the awkward ones in to help - a bit put up or shut up.
Hugs xx

“Proper” rates would go againsnt the ethos of Scouts etc
^This

Fees are kept as low as possible, to ensure that cost is not a barrier for children’s attendance.

In some affluent areas, it’s true that most parents could probably afford to pay more than they do. But in less affluent areas, it can be a struggle for some to find the money even for the low subs. To charge more would stop the inclusivity. Many groups will subsidise or fundraise to help meet subs, camp fees etc for those who can’t manage the costs at all

I really want to pack it in myself.
Not the parents but the other section leaders...Omg they 're so mean to each other.
At the moment we 're being picked on...and in the text group we 're highlighted and pointed comments made.
Thing is...we run programme (according to our audit...yup we got audited and we scored excellently) really well...done a camp and several hikes so far and a pretty WOW camp in May...
You just can't win...it's actually so draining.
I 've never met people who are so mean spirited. ....
The kids and parents are brilliant...
I m just so tired. The more you try the more grief you get.

"I would suggest that the onus would be on the parent who refuses, to find a way to pick up notifications, rather than in the volunteer to provide communications across several platforms."

Surely everyone who's on FB has an email address though, whereas the opposite isn't true?

Not the parents but the other section leaders...Omg they 're so mean to each other

That’s such a shame, it can be similar in our group too - there’s a lot of strong personalities, and some older leaders who are very traditional, and seem to resent some of the younger leaders and their way of doing things. I just keep my head down and get on with it, and try to ignore all the back biting - easier said than done sometimes, I know.

Surely everyone who's on FB has an email address though, whereas the opposite isn't true?

But it’s pretty simple to set up a FB account, even if all you use it for is contact with Beavers. It’s a very effective and quick way of getting info to parents, and of parents asking questions, organising rotas, events etc as everyone can see the info given by anyone in the group. Much easier than email, IME, and if it’s the preferred method of communication by the leader, the parents should accept that.

@RidingMyBike

I’d rather have leaders who were trained in safeguarding, for example

Girlguiding leaders are trained in Safeguarding, I just completed the Level 4 for Commissioners. A new set of modules have just been put in place. Eventually all leaders will have Level 3, unit helpers Levels 1-2.
This is down to new legislation so assume Scouting will be the same.

Many groups will subsidise or fundraise to help meet subs, camp fees etc for those who can’t manage the costs at all

Yes we do - we don’t receive enough in subs to cover all costs. Made harder because we have to hire our hall - the church doesn’t gift us the use, and that wipes out a lot!

@Bookwitch - that’s what I meant. I was writing about how it used to be where leaders were more available to do these activities - partly because of greater availability (fewer women working, jobs weren’t so all encompassing) and partly because the demands of volunteering weren’t so onerous. It is a good thing that all leaders are trained in safeguarding (I know they are - I was a Guider) as well as other things, but that training does involve taking up more of the volunteer’s time

Something DH did when he ran a bike club and was frustrated that only a small minority of members would volunteer to marshal the races (when a lot of them wanted to compete) was to say 'marshal three races and you get a free subscription/marshal none and you pay full price'.

So, basically, you pay in time or you pay in money.

It would be unfair to people with little of either but it would at least generate either more dosh or more helpers.

Phineyj
I can see how that might work in some cases, but Beavers is probably already running on a tight budget, and to offer free subs in return for a parents help would cause as many problems as it solved.

I don't think you can or should tie in volunteering to help with either fees or attendance.

It needs to be voluntary and not compulsory - that doesn't mean that you shouldn't encourage it and say that some support is expected.

What is absolutely expected though is that parents should be supportive and not abusive.

I can't see what is wrong with asking parents to help. We had a rota so it was one night a term, so your kids get may 10 to 12 nights of fun cheap activity and in return you help out once? Not a big ask. Of course they also get outings and camps etc.

I can't see what is wrong with asking parents to help. We had a rota so it was one night a term, so your kids get may 10 to 12 nights of fun cheap activity and in return you help out once?

I agree, although I also think it would be unfair to link it to attendance. The rota I run is more of an opt-out rather than opt-in. IME you don’t get much response if you request help and ask for parents to sign up. But if you just allocate an evening to each parent, and make it clear they should let you know if they can’t make it, you get a much better level of response.

That said, when my DC were at nursery (state funded), compulsory help was required from each parent for at least two mornings per half term. It was absolutely a condition of your child attending. Most parents could see the benefits (more child spaces available) and did their turn with good grace.

I tried making a rota.
It would have meant one parent helping twice a year.
The rudeness and abuse I got from people who were supposedly educated was really shocking.
We even had one parent who came every week and sat and read her book in her car. Would not lift a finger.
These were parents of 8 to 16 year olds and most of them did not have younger DC.
In fact, the parents of the little ones in the junior group were more helpful.
My own dd got bullied by some of the kids due to the behaviour of these adults, as did the DC of one of the the other volunteer organisers.
I would not have believed it if I hadn't experienced it.
The whole thing about having to hang around waiting for parents to collect was so annoying. We couldn't just abandon the younger ones due to safeguarding rules. I used to be sat there nearly an hour after the activity finished sometimes, only to be told that the parent had been to the gym or supermarket.
The parents even whinged and complained about signing their kids in and out. This was required by the fire regs at the premises we used and was necessary for our insurance.
It is so discouraging.

I run a kids group and have similar issues. Although our most recent problem parent pulled their child when they realised (after FOUR years of their child attending twice a week) that we weren't "proper" workers and they didn't want their child looked after by "amateurs". Ironically he's moved his child to a service that costs five times as much, but has a poorer inspection report. All becase of the word volunteer.

The lateness thing jumps out of your post. We dont' have a late fine, but we do have a strict "three times and you are out" policy for pick up where a parent is more than 8 minutes late (I don't know where 8 came from originally, but it's effective) in one calendar year. Also once one or two have been late I include a reminder of our late policy and I find the inclusion of the timeline that shows that we eventually would phone social services makes parents realise that we're not going to hang about all night waiting on them.

If you need parent helpers and parents know that then parents can move their child to another group or activity if they don't like it. I pointed out to a parent recently that there is another group in our area very, very similar to us that doesn't ask parents for ANY committment at all. Finally as she was bitching about the fact they cost five times as much as us the penny dropped - they have paid staff running sessions which is why they don't need parent helpers.

Don't tolerate late pick ups.
If you can't run a session because you don't have enough adults then don't run (we got 6 new semi-regular volunteers after closing one week).

Also be clear with your parents what you need them to do. I find that people often don't volunteer because they don't know what's expected of them and they don't want to end up with 6 hours a week work because they don't have the time for that.

"We need an extra pair of eyes for the last 20 minutes of the session for the run around game"
"We're doing a fiddly craft activity and could really do with an extra pair of hands"
"Can anyone help for 15 minutes sorting the drinks for snack time?"

All of those have worked much better for us than "We need a parent helper please".