To want to say F*** off to all the Beaver parents and throw the towel in?

[DippyScout]

Sorry sounds dramatic but my goodness I am at my wits end. I run a very well established Beaver group. I work bloody hard to make sure we have vibrant, engaging and exciting activities every week that link to all the badges and all children can achieve in. I reckon in total I put around 4-5 hours a week into the admin, setting up, running etc of this colony, all for the sake of the 20 Beavers who come each week and really enjoy it. I am a volunteer, a volunteer who has a full time job, children of my own, many other commitments. I do this because I really believe it benefits the children and I adore the children.... however their parents - well that's another thing! On large they simultaneously refuse to help out or support, but expect the moon on a stick and constantly complain and whinge. I have some parents who will help out when asked, but others, particularly a couple of them, who are causing me so much hassle I am tempted to throw the towel in. I don't want to kick their children out (lovely children who love the group) but the parents complain continuously about the nature, style of activities not being badge focused enough (all activities built around badges), complain if I organise trips, complain that we've made the group more inclusive (apparently they don't 'pay' (voluntary subs) for their children to not have full attention), and the list goes on. Over the years I have noticed volunteer support from parents dropping each year, and less and less support. I am a volunteer, it is wearing me down! My children have been and gone from Beavers, I only now do this because I enjoyed it. I've spoken to them, addressed issues clearly and firmly, but they are sapping all the joy from this role! I've been doing this for over 5 years and right now I want to throw the towel in!

There does seem to be a massive shortage of leaders for children's clubs. Why not start charging for them and paying people to run them?

I have to pay for my DC to learn an instrument, have swimming lessons and do a drama club. Why should Beavers or Cubs be any different. It seems that these clubs are free babysitting and an opportunity for man people to take the proverbial.

many people, not just man people

Neolara yes, but also for every beaver that is the oldest, there will be another that is the younger child or another that is an only child. beavers is also the shortest and earliest group in terms of meeting so in some ways it can be easier, they also tend to do less in the way of camps and activities that require transport to places other than the hall/hut.

Personally when helping out I find cubs the worst as they are the wildest age group, all enthusiasm and very little skill :o

My friend ran a GB group all through the years from her daughter being born, she just took her with her and got on with it

I would quit, not worth the effort now your children are not involved. Both my husband and myself have quit leading activities due to hassle from parents who are not willing to assist. Do something nice with your family in the time you save.

I wonder if beavers is a particularly difficult activity to find volunteers for. There will be lots of parents with younger kids who maybe need to be fed / put to bed around the time beavers is held

I agree that this might be the case if the colony were asking for help on a regular basis. But surely most parents could manage one or two evenings a year, even if it does mean disrupting their younger childrens routine as a one off.

I fully accept there will be a handful of parents who, for whatever reason, just can’t help. But these are few and far between, most just don’t want to.

I would suggest announcing that the group will have to close down at the end of term unless more volunteers can be found. Maybe put up a rota or something and get people to fill in when they can help. If it gets filled up, the group can continue.

I find this thread quite sad really. That so many are disillusioned and fed up, and that a proportion of parents are pains in the bum.

I'm a relative newbie to running a Brownie unit, only 2.5 years in. I only got involved because after a change in leadership the programme was making me twitchy, it was dire. Before I knew it (after a term) Brown owl was moving 100 miles away and I was LIC. Before that 7 years running a Sunday school, and yes parents played a major role in why I stepped down.

If you are needing a break, then a break has to happen. Long term, if you stay, see if you can recruit some young leaders from the scout unit. While they don't count in your adult to child ratios, they are a god send in running games, running activities, and generally being an extra pair of hands.

Finally, join face ache. Not to make a massive friends list, but to join various groups. There's a general scout group, a beaver leaders group, and many many others. All of which can provide support and ideas.

Hugs. It's not easy. Anyone in this truly earns their weight in chocolate buttons.

I wonder if beavers is a particularly difficult activity to find volunteers for. There will be lots of parents with younger kids who maybe need to be fed / put to bed around the time beavers is held

Yes it can be, they are usually around the 5pm/finish at 6pm latest and it can be a difficult time for everyone

I have a good group of parents at present and the cubs are lovely too, but then I also run a tight ship and don't put up with any nonsense, so don't usually have trouble. The ones where the attendance was erratic last term have now left anyway so I'm feeling less frustrated.

Like the OP, we run a rolling programme and our meetings are always badge work based, but if they miss a meeting they can end up not getting a badge

Oh yes, and get parents in to help with a specific task. I often have tidy up fairies arrive 15 before we finish, or to help with a particular craft, activity. Not all can, but those who do are fab.

And can you lock the door so those 15mins late are stuffed? Late pickups, later than 15 mins with no communication, and is be reporting to the police as an abandoned child. Again, only have to do it once. Yes it's militant, but that's the language they understand. It's not easy.

I think that parents should be given a form that they sign saying they will commit to X hours a month and if they don't then they should be asked to leave. Why, because it is not fair

So.... if you ring the Samaritans should you be asked to agree to volunteer for them or they don't take your call? If you're stranded at sea should the RNLI ask you to agree to volunteer for them or they don't rescue you? If you the Citizen's Advice Bureau should you be asked to sign a form agreeing to give them X hours a month or you don't get advice? If you lose a baby, before SANDS visit you in the hospital should you be asked to sign a form committing you to X hours volunteering or they don't come and talk to you? Before you attend (volunteer-run) ante-natal classes should you have to commit to helping run the next lot?

And if not why the exception for beavers/cubs/scouts/guides/brownies? All are equally unfair (if you see it as unfair)

One option is to ask for help with admin tasks, too. Some parents are probably petrified of having to help with a group of 24(?) children. But there's no reason for them not to help with admin tasks for a few hours a month or year. Leaders have loads of admin and behind the scenes work to do.

Some parents will genuinely be too busy to help. You can't be in two places at once eg if you are a school governor you can't be a beaver leader too. Although there is that adage if you want something doing ask a busy person. But most of us can find at least one thing we can do to help. DS was at cubs/scouts for a few years and as examples, on one occasion DH helped with some metalwork and on another occasion I was an extra adult on a scout bike ride. And as mentioned above, admin jobs can be done anytime, within reason.

I think scout/guide leaders are fabulous. I couldn't do it and I was so grateful for the time they put in when ds was a member.

Some people's sense of entitlement astounds me. They're the same people who can't see past the end of their own nose often too - they are entirely incapable of seeing someone else's point of view.

My kids go to brownies and scouts and I think sending them has been one of My best parenting decisions so far! I'm so so grateful to the leaders and organisers and try to make that clear. I help when I can and wouldn't even dream of bloody complaining.

I run the PTA at school. We have 700 children. Approximately 20 people help out and approximately 120 moan about how we could do things differently.

(Wonders if DaddyFox is the parent that asked us to cut up the microwaved meatballs they provided for their 8yo on sleepover because the world's mildest chilli wasn't appropriate for their precious poppet)

Critical / high maintainence parents have their best comedy value when they publicly display their ignorance on Facebook. Facebook is also good for expressing gratitude. That tends to be contagious

We had a parent who made a meal out of every offsite activity and found a problem with every solution offered by other parents. Over time the patience wore thin amongst the other parents and offers from them dried up. In the end the parent withdrew their children. Had they have been nicer, it wouldn't have come to that.
Quite honestly if you choose to put your children through a complex social life, it is your responsibility to manage it.

Scouting/ guiding are cheap because they are run by volunteers. The flip side of that is that the leaders may well need to request support as they juggle their own working/ family lives. Subs would be considerably more expensive if leaders were paid NMW for the time spent directly on the activity, let alone the behind the scenes admin, training and additional events.

I appreciate that some parents genuinely struggle with time. Making up for it at some point by an alternative support e.g. making cakes to sell at a fete may be more realistic than staying on a pack night is finr. Just being appreciative and reasonable helps.
It's inevitable that the high maintainence parents never have the time though, and that wears incredibly thin when you yourself have had a long working day and you and your young DCs go over 12 hours from work/childcare straight to scouting/ guiding before you get home. (Plus spouse frequently working away) I kept going through that phase for the children doing the activity and the friendship of the team.

We issue brief biographies of the leaders that help parents appreciate that we have our own professional and personal commitments too. It should be no great shock that these 100+ year old organisations are voluntary and include events such as church parade. Maybe it would be worth documenting expectations of participants, family suport and regular extra events that the unit tends to be involved in. Give to new starters and an annual reminder.

It's not an attitude confined to children's activities. I've experienced it growing in teaching and increasingly found my time dealing with parental quibbles/complaints on top of all the rest of the workload.
Oh well, now I've jacked in that, I have been able to support DS's unit during a leader shortage even if it includes the company of his younger sibling.

DeathStare, I see your point but I wouldn't start giving the samaritans or the RNLI regular feedback on how they should be running things, which is the basis of the OP's issue.

Someone earlier in the thread said they'd been a beaver? leader for 21 years and some parents had become much more difficult/unreasonable in that time. I wonder what has caused that. Might it be people moaning to each other on social media and encouraging each other to complain? Might affect schools too

I prefer email contact as I don't want to join FB. The group leader here has a separate email so doesn't need to give out her personal one.

gluteus, I do think that you invalidated the rest of your point somewhat by the 'last straw' being to get up at the unearthly hour of 8am (!) on a Sunday to attend the twice-a-year-maximum church parade

I don't do church. I did do church as a child and I was abused and raped by 2 church youth leaders.

So, no, I don't do religion. Once I knew that was involved, we stopped going.

I don't need pressure to attend church.

If that's what beavers is all about, then, no thanks.

And if not why the exception for beavers/cubs/scouts/guides/brownies? All are equally unfair (if you see it as unfair)

People who use food banks, or the RNLI, or The Samaritans are generally using these ‘services’ either in an emergency, or at a very difficult time in their lives.

It often happens too that once people have experienced what these charities/volunteers do, they may come back at a better time in their lives to volunteer (effectively to give back). For example, the night before my dad died, a wonderful Matie Curie nurse sat with him all night. Following this, I have spent quite some time fundraising for Marie Curie, which I probably wouldn’t have done if I hadn’t had any experience of the work they do.

However, parents and children are using the ‘service’ provided by scouts/guides/football clubs etc week in, week out, not as an emergency measure, but as part of their children’s regular extra curricular avtivities. It seems only fair that parents give a little help to ensure the smooth running of these activities.

For the majority of people

For the parents or guardians who prefer not to use Facebook (which really is a good way of communicating within a closed group with a common objective) I would suggest that the onus would be on the parent who refuses, to find a way to pick up notifications, rather than in the volunteer to provide communications across several platforms. Just sayin'

Gluteus, I am sorry to hear of your experience. Your aversion to church is understandable. (Not going to patronise you by saying not all churches/church people are like that. They're not, obviously, but you are more than entitled to want to avoid).

FWIW (making this point more generally), church/religious observation is a fairly marginal part of Scouting/Guiding these days AIUI (and they are expressly open to people of all faiths or none), but it is there, once or twice a year.

I agree Finally The leader needs to decide on their best form of communication and then that's up to the parents to engage with it or otherwise, not for the leader to make accommodations for.

Obviously you wouldn't want DC missing out because their parents, through poverty, had limited or no access to the internet. In those cases you'd expect the parent to ask at the end of each session what they need to know for next week, that's given reasonable accommodation to someone in a circumstance beyond their control.

Our Scouts don't do religion at all. the exception being Remembrance day and that's optional (and not in church) . We are atheists and probably more than that tbh. We've never felt under any pressure to attend church. I appreciate that not all groups are the same though.

I apologize for not reading this thread but when i was in a similar position, we had a parent attend one meeting with a specific objective; a badge/craft/snack/helper. Every parent had to commit to one meeting.

This usually helps bc they realize how much work it is to do your job.

My children weren't lucky enough to have a good leader and after 'she" lost my dd and told the entire group "You can always depend upon strangers to help you." We dropped out. She also tried to teach the breath of life without a certification.???

Having seen the most incompetent, Thank you for your kindness and generosity. You have done a wonderful thing for many children. However, if you are no longer feeling appreciated or happy, move on. I'm sure that there are some other way to use your skills.

I was a Guider for 15 years in my teens and 20s/30s but gave up long before I had children, partly because i couldn’t physically get to meetings any more (3 hour commute each day - there is no way I could have worked with a younger age group as their meetings, understandably, started earlier and I wasn’t even back in that town yet!). And partly because of the time it took up - one evening each week spent at the meeting, one or two evenings each week spent planning or at training or a district meeting, then invariably some shopping for materials to squeeze in at a weekend. It was a nightmare.

My perception from the old days when I was a Brownie/Guide in the 80s and 90s were that a lot of the leaders were school teachers, in the days before they had vast quantities of paperwork so they finished work early and had time to do these extra activities. And the programme wasn’t that good, they simply did the same things over and over again. And there wasn’t as much training to do then - it’s better now, I’d rather have leaders who were trained in safeguarding, for example.

I threw the towel in, it was such a relief in the end.