AIBU to think this child shouldn’t be in my son’s class?

[HicDraconis]

A boy at DS1’s primary school - P - arrived a couple of years ago having been excluded from several other local schools. He was violent and prone to angry rages if things did not go his way. One break time he jumped on DS1’s back and thumped him around the head. DS1 back kicked him off (he’s a brown tip belt in karate) and was taken to the office for observation (possible head injuries) for the afternoon. P has chased another boy through 5 classrooms and thrown a chair at him, smashed up one of the teachers’ laptops (family had to pay to replace it), that kind of thing.

This year DS1 started a new school (year 7, Intermediate, state school for what it’s worth). He sat an entrance exam which got him into the accelerated extension stream - this is a separate class from the rest of year 7 and maxed at 30 pupils.

Surprisingly, P has also been placed in this class as an extra. He can’t keep up with the standard of work, is disruptive and interferes with the ability of the other students to get on with things. When questioned, the head said he was put in that class for reasons of “strategy” - he didn’t sit the screening test but they think he’ll be easier to handle in this particular set.

The class teacher says they’re aware of his back history, that “strategies are in place and they are monitoring the situation carefully”.

When we accepted DS1’s place it was on the understanding that if he couldn’t keep up with the standard of work he’d be put into a different class.

DS1 is apprehensive about the possibility of being hit again. P has already scribbled over a piece of his artwork so far and we’re only a week into the new term. He’s also disrupted the class with bad behaviour, had various verbal warnings and one strike for verbally abusive behaviour.

AIBU to think that they’re doing P a disservice by putting him in a class where he won’t be able to keep up? Surely he’d be better looked after in one of the standard sets with a 1:1 TA (which he had at primary)? AIBU to think that if they were going to increase the class size to 31, the space should have gone to someone who narrowly missed out on the exam scores?

You surely can't know what this boy is capable of academically, and I'm really surprised that you know for a fact that he didn't even take the exam. Levels of one child's academic achievement should not be common knowledge for other children's parents.

YANBU for wanting to keep your son safe and secure. YABU to think passing this exam somehow should buy him a ticket out of ever being a class with a child with behavioural difficulties. PPs are right, by all means engage with the school but frame it through what steps can be taken to keep your son safe and secure. If, instead, you exert your energy into a witchhunt to get this boy out of the clever kids' group, you won't be taken as seriously.

Laundrymountail The OP already said the child had had numerous exclusions from other schools.

PRU also have a medical needs unit, which isn't just for terminal illness, it's also for those who cannot cope in mainstream, for a variety of EBD reasons.

YANBU the other child sounds like he needs an environment that better suits his needs.

Just because he’s had exclusion from other schools doesn’t mean he has a chaotic home life! That’s the point I’m making!

Laundry I addressed it up thread. He lives with a female relative (not parents) who currently has the equivalent of guardianship. His parents are still alive but not in the picture. He has been excluded from multiple previous schools for appalling behaviour - SEN are picked up relatively well here and he would have had a referral to a paediatrician plus an assessment from a psychologist.

Plus when he attacked DS1, DH had a long chat with the head of his primary. He specifically asked about SEN / ODD type issues (I was prepared not to go postal if there were extenuating circumstances) but we were told there were none. And about the previous expulsions, and about the schools plan to deal with things. Probably more than we should have been told, but this is NZ.

Newyear a PRU is only a temporary measure, it’s not a school. It’s used for children until a school is found.

We have no idea if this boy could manage in mainstream with appropriate support.

Hic behavioural issues are special needs!!

Why don't you wait and see what happens before you all complain. Maybe things will work out. Maybe they won't. But right now the other parents have written off P and the school's attempt to improve things. He scribbled on a drawing, not great but not that bad. He is only 11. People change.

Complain straightaway to the Headteacher and governors. Try and see if you can get some of the other parents together too (although this is often difficult in Secondary school settings).

Your son and the rest of his classmates deserve to be in the accelerated class, the other child clearly does not.

I used to be a Secondary School Teacher, and I have sadly had to put up with suddenly having a child of similar nature thrown into my class like an experiment. Each time, the effects would be incredibly detrimental, and students and their parents would quite rightly complain to me, and their Head of Year. The Senior staff would never listen to the Teachers when we would tell them that ‘it won’t work,’ nor when we’d complain before the students and parents did. They’d also do nothing after the parental and student complaints, apart from defend the child with the issues, until a very serious incident occurred in a lesson - strangling a student whilst threatening him with a knife in one of my lessons, and a sexual assault on a student in one of my colleagues lessons are two incidents which ‘spring to mind.’

I really hope that your son’s school isn’t the last school that this child can be permanently excluded from before being sent to a PRU (Pupil Referral Unit). I say this, as he’ll almost be able to get away with murder before they’ll kick him out and send him to one of those.

Keep informing the school and governors of his behaviour, and how detrimental and dangerous it is. If this isn’t working, contact Ofsted Head Office and tell them that the school are not properly safeguarding your child, and are not acting upon your concerns. This should ‘wake the senior staff up.’ It’s certainly worked in a couple of schools I taught in.

Good luck.

Hum unfortunately this does seem to be a strategy used with disruptive children. Put them in the top sets and it'll help. Don't think it does, this is happening in the UK. It's a poor substitute for children who need more 1:1 support or different schooling but the funding just isn't there. This is what is happening in the UK anyway.

A lot of teacher's aren't happy about it but they don't get much say.

Macaroni he didn’t sit the test. One - it’s held in the school hall, all pupils sit it together. About 60-70 kids are put forward for it, he wasn’t there. Two - DS1’s friend’s dad was told by the head that he hadn’t sat the test, but been placed there for strategic reasons.

I do get that it may be coming across as a witch hunt. Most of the parents of the kids in this class know each other one way or another (very small town!) None of us are happy. And again - I’m sure P is better off in this class. But the other 31 aren’t.

I will stick to seeing how things go, reassuring DS1 that he can always talk to me. He approached the teacher himself after the first few days to ask her how he should handle P being in the class. She said to treat P like any other student but at the first sign of problems to bring them to her.

DH thinks they may be thinking that he’s on his way to 3 strikes (auto exclusion) so they won’t have to deal with this much longer. This does bother me - I wonder if he’d be so difficult if he wasn’t so switched off about the work.

I think it's really hard op. I removed my dd from a school because there was a violent child with additional needs in her class , this child attacked her and she was afraid to even walk to the centre of the playground. The school's hands were tied buy my dd was in tears daily.

The thing is though , my work is supporting kids with additional needs that are sometimes violent to others. I am trained in most aspects of their care and see many teachers struggle when they are given a child with these challenging behaviours and just have to get on with it , with very little in the way of resources.

Try to act without judgement and with understanding for all concerned. Do what's best for your son , because unfortunately, the school probably have very little power to change the current situation.

Good luck.

In a nutshell, wait until something actually happens (in current situation, not 6 months ago) before you try to take this further.

I also don’t get your point at all Hic, so if this boy had lots of diagnosis, you would be more accepting of him beating your son around the head!!?

The point is it’s NOT acceptable regardless of special needs, unidentified needs or no needs at all!!

You need to complain, not because he is a set with your son, not because you don’t think he is capable enough. You complain to prevent this from happening again! What steps are being taken to prevent it!

No Shed - it’s not acceptable SEN or no SEN. Of course I wouldn’t accept the violence either way. However I might have better grounds for asking about 1:1 in the classroom to keep him occupied and DS1 safe.

It does seem like a witch hunt but I can understand your reasons. No it's not fair that he got in the class without sitting the test or working but then again life isn't fair and aren't you glad your kid doesn't have the problems P does. If parents don't at least give it a chance then it is doomed to failure. It's hard on everyone. Can you imagine knowing, at 11, that no one wanted you in their school.

OP:

Sounds as if the school have run out of options. Sometimes that strategy work - to a very limited extent - for the child with the “issues”. For the others, however, it is counterproductive.

Plus when he attacked DS1, DH had a long chat with the head of his primary. He specifically asked about SEN / ODD type issues (I was prepared not to go postal if there were extenuating circumstances) but we were told there were none.

DO you seriously not understand that they aren't actually allowed to discuss this with you and will revert to "no that's not a problem" in order to end the illegal conversation?

It’s not your responsibility to establish what support the boy needs! He has behavioural issues which are special needs! Support is based on needs, not a diagnosis!

You have every right to ask what steps are being taken to prevent it happening again. You have no right to know the ins and outs of this boys difficulties or academic abilities.

@NeepNeepNeep , I know what you mean about the witch hunt thing. Not that the op is doing this but you must be careful. I've seen the mum of an SEN boy in tears because the other parents were huddling and commenting on her son's behaviour. This lady is a wonderful mum in a difficult situation and I think these other parents should be ashamed of themselves for not showing her even a shred of compassion.

@zzzzz Makes some good points.

I can't believe people are giving the OP a hard time over this. This boy attacked her son! If someone attacked my son I would feel the same. It's a shame if he has problems but my son's welfare would come first! Surely he shouldn't have been placed in the same class as a child he previously attacked?

Actually, this NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS yelling is rot.

The OP’s child is in a class where this “experiment”is being carried out. Ergo it is very much the OP’s business.🙄

@MagicFajita People need to catch themselves on. If the tables were turned and their able children with much family support were being discussed like this, it would be very different.