AIBU to complain about male nursery manager?

[Barnabix]

DD’s nursery has a relatively new manager (male). DD is school age, so attends as after-school and holiday care.

He seems good in a number of respects. He has implemented a couple of activities for the kids on certain days during the week, e.g. one day per week the nursery hire the local hall and the kids get to play football there instead of being cooped up in the nursery.

I think this is good. Also initially felt positively about the fact that he is male. He seems more enthusiastic and energetic than some of the women who work there.

Here are my questions to you wise ladies:

1.AIBU to find this creepy? Twice now I’ve seen him pick up and cuddle one of DD’s friends (6 years old). In a playful way, she’s come up to him and sort of put her arms up asking for her to pick him up. It just doesn’t sit well with me. It would be totally different if it was a baby/toddler. This is a school age child who needs boundaries.. especially in physical contact with caregivers e.g. teachers? He might be well meaning, but what about if someone in the future wasn’t, and this girl thinks its okay for grown men to be cuddling her .. teachers of 4/5 year olds aren’t supposed to hug their pupils, so why should he?
Also, if he does that when I’m there, how tactile is he when I’m not..?

1. I really don’t think he sticks governmental requirements of staffing ratios and requirements when he takes the kids on little outings. E.g. for a walk round the village etc. I think he takes them himself when strictly speaking it should be 2 adults. He also never gives ETA of when they’ll be back, so twice now I’ve come to collect DD and been left waiting 15/20 mins for them to get back. AIBU to think he should issue a timetable in advance of what they’re doing? Or even say in the morning “we won’t be back till 5.15pm today because we have X planned”. It seems obvious to me that you would just plan to always be back by say 4pm when parents start to do pick ups ?!
2. I don’t even know if they get their afternoon snack when they’re on these adventures. It all just seems pretty last minute. Although I like the fact they’re outside and doing stuff obviously.

Am i being too pedantic?!

If he's outside ratios and especially on a trip out that would be a deal breaker for me.

1 and 3 wouldn't bother me.

2 - you say you think, do you know for a fact?

I would complain about the coming back late that's it.

Maybe talk to the girls mum about the other thing. See if she is happy with it.

Reception teachers do hug children, there's no rule against it?

Similarly, I'm not sure if there is an actual rule about having two adults on outings, though it does seem sensible.

Other than ratio concerns Yes!

Yes I’d be concerned. No single member of staff should be taking kids on outside trips. Return ETA and whereabouts should always be given

I’m not at all against Male nursery staff by the way - I live in Sweden and a decent proportion of nursery staff here are male. The ones at my sons nursery are great. They often go out to the woods or on adventures however the ratios are ALWAYS there or they don’t go.
Male staff and female staff are allowed to pick up and comfort kids here and often do, however if you feel this is part of a bigger picture that makes you uncomfortable you should raise it.

Be careful how you word your communication - stick to the facts and don’t allow it to read as being prejudiced against Male staff - that will make your complaint easy to dismiss.

1 wouldn't bother anyone if it was a woman, so why should him being a man make a difference? No wonder men don't watto work in the field.

Number 3 isn't crucial, 6 year olds don't get afternoon snacks at school. And as for number 2, you're not sure if this actually happens, plus is the minimum of 2 adults the same for after school clubs? I've certainly seen 1 member of after school club staff collect a small group of children and walk them to the club, I can't see how this is different.
I think YABU.

1. is fine IMO. A nursery is different from school and it should be a setting where children are given hugs if they want them however old they are.
2. you might have a point there. I'm not sure what the correct ratios for trips out are but I think there should be at least 2 adults and they should have a phone with them too.
3. doesn't matter. The children won't starve and it will be good for them to get out and about.

Yes you are being unreasonable

What a nasty paranoid world we are creating, of course being hugged does not lead to children being abused. It’s lonely unloved children who are more likely to be victimised, and you really think a paedophile would hug a child in front of another adult ?

You think he goes by himself, but you do not know that, so it’s just conjecture on your part.

As for the snack point, maybe he takes the snacks with him.

He shouldn’t be taking the children out by himself, but that has nothing to do with him being a man.

For your first point I would say YABU. Also the fact you used the word tactile....really? I get that there's media attention on men in care of children being less than sanitary but keep in mind there's sometimes women helping these men conduct these acts. He probably sees hugs as a friendly thing and a six year old should be able to understand the difference between stranger danger and a person who cares for her.

However your second point you are 100% correct there should be 2 adults what if one of the children got harmed by accident. Also maybe suggest to him a timetable since it's a little bit unfair for parents to be waiting around 15-20 mins for him to return from his little adventures. Some parents have other commitments as well as picking up the DC

A single member of staff (of either sex) taking children off premises with no ETA and returning late is not OK.

None of the rest would bother me.

The o my thing that would bother me is ratios but I’d check facts first. Childminders must take small groups out alone?

If I had a genuine concern about ratios, I would raise it, yes. That's a serious violation. Also, I would be concerned about not returning in time for collection. It's one thing if you came early to get her, then someone at the nursery should be able to tell you where they've gone and you should be able to just go collect her there if you need to. But if you came at the correct time and they were late for pick ups because they were out, unless it's like a on off (got stuck in traffic, someone fell down and hurt themselves and they couldn't walk back in time, etc.), that would be a concern for me. Parents often have other children to collect or places to be, so they should be ready to go when it's their usual collection time. The snack thing I wouldn't necessarily be concerned about too much, but you can always ask.

The hugging thing, it would only bother me if it seemed inappropriate/unwanted or if you wouldn't be comfortable with a female teacher doing the same. My dd's nursery used to have a male nursery worker. He was lovely and he adored him. She would often hug him or sit on his lap, just like she does her female teachers. He still comes back from time to time for a visit (she's also school age now but goes on school holidays). He's moved on to specialise in working with children with disabilities so he works in a different setting now, but keeps in touch. My dd still hugs him and jumps all over him. I think it's fine in context and when it's seemingly wanted. I would maybe be uncomfortable with it if the child seemed distressed by it, but otherwise that seems somewhat normal behaviour in context.

2 would bother me a bit.

1 and 3, nah. Irritating to find your child not there at your pickup time, granted. You are sure of your ratios?

NB a No Touch policy is an outdated thought iirc.

You needn't have even mention he was male, it bears no relevance what so ever!!!

I woukd have no problem with 1 or 3. I don't mind caregivers giving my child a hug if my child is happy. They are human, the child is still only little, at 6. But I would have a problem with 2.

I actually fail to see why the fact he is male is relevant in any way?

What are the other staff doing while he's out and about with the children, surely commen sense to have at least two staff members.

I work in a school, Part of our contract is we are to behave in a way that can never be construed in any way to be inappropriate. picking up for a full-on cuddle would be seen as inappropriate for both male and female staff, but again this is a school and not a nursery....

On the other hand is there any way the girl could be related to him? I dont think my dc would be able to walk past me without wanting a cuddle if i worked with them.

The ratio thing.... have you witnessed him taking them out alone. maybe have a chat with someone about this.... is there another manager? is there an owner? or just raise it with him...ask about staffing on these outings.

You could always refuse your child permission on these outings. We had to sign forms to give permission to go on any outing off nursery grounds. Some nurseries have a blanket permission form you may have signed when your child started... have a check.

I think it’s really sad if nursery workers can’t cuddle the little ones - I picked ds up today and he was happily sitting on his favourite (Male) chap’s knee, waving a plastic helicopter around with great concentration. Staff will carry the little ones, cuddle them, comfort them - it’s essential in my opinion. If ds is upset I want him to be picked up and comforted.

The ratios thing is a concern - do raise that. The returning late thing is a concern as well - parents could be late for other pickups or work.

I wouldn't be happy with a childcare worker picking up and hugging a 6 year old like that. That combined with ignoring ratios and taking the children off on his own and repeatedly bringing them back late would make me concerned. It all comes across as very unprofessional.

There's a lot of "I think" and "I don't know" in what you've written, op. How about you maybe find out some concrete facts and take it from there. You may be barking up totally the wrong tree. As for number one... if you going to throw not very well disguised accusations of inappropriate behaviour with little girls about be very very sure of your facts. I'm forever peeling affectionate primary kids off myself in school and I can absolutely assure you that I am no Jimmy in hiding! We desperately need men in early years and primary education. I get your worry but it's important to keep perspective. I assume this nursery/childcare is not a one man band?