AIBU to complain about male nursery manager?

[Barnabix]

DD’s nursery has a relatively new manager (male). DD is school age, so attends as after-school and holiday care.

He seems good in a number of respects. He has implemented a couple of activities for the kids on certain days during the week, e.g. one day per week the nursery hire the local hall and the kids get to play football there instead of being cooped up in the nursery.

I think this is good. Also initially felt positively about the fact that he is male. He seems more enthusiastic and energetic than some of the women who work there.

Here are my questions to you wise ladies:

1.AIBU to find this creepy? Twice now I’ve seen him pick up and cuddle one of DD’s friends (6 years old). In a playful way, she’s come up to him and sort of put her arms up asking for her to pick him up. It just doesn’t sit well with me. It would be totally different if it was a baby/toddler. This is a school age child who needs boundaries.. especially in physical contact with caregivers e.g. teachers? He might be well meaning, but what about if someone in the future wasn’t, and this girl thinks its okay for grown men to be cuddling her .. teachers of 4/5 year olds aren’t supposed to hug their pupils, so why should he?
Also, if he does that when I’m there, how tactile is he when I’m not..?

1. I really don’t think he sticks governmental requirements of staffing ratios and requirements when he takes the kids on little outings. E.g. for a walk round the village etc. I think he takes them himself when strictly speaking it should be 2 adults. He also never gives ETA of when they’ll be back, so twice now I’ve come to collect DD and been left waiting 15/20 mins for them to get back. AIBU to think he should issue a timetable in advance of what they’re doing? Or even say in the morning “we won’t be back till 5.15pm today because we have X planned”. It seems obvious to me that you would just plan to always be back by say 4pm when parents start to do pick ups ?!
2. I don’t even know if they get their afternoon snack when they’re on these adventures. It all just seems pretty last minute. Although I like the fact they’re outside and doing stuff obviously.

Am i being too pedantic?!

Regardless of whether he's a man or woman, it is against practice to be picking up and hugging school age children. Not saying he means anything by it, but I've worked for years in nurseries and after school clubs and we were not allowed to be doing stuff like this.

The trips are not ok. The fact that he is a man is highly relevant and he should be treated differently to women and under greater scrutiny due to sex offenders being almost exclusively male.

No. Don't complain about things you "think" are happening. Find out the facts and ask for information by all means.

He gave a six year old a cuddle who asked for it in the presence of other people. Not sure that's a safeguarding issue really.

Having said that late returns are not on.

Novel idea but why don't you have a chat about ratios and return times rather than upsetting a guy who's probably just trying to do the best job he can for the children he cares for.

1 and 3 aren't an issue.

2 is either a mistake on your part re the ratios or it's a major issue. No single member of staff should be taking children on trips.

Why do you think he's doing that? Have you asked? What happens when you have to wait for your DD? have you complained? What have they said? Have you asked about the ratios?

Is he a qualified teacher by any chance?

How sad Demirose. We hug our schoolchildren if they need it. Our Head used to pop a crying child who had fallen over on his knee.
I'd be concerned if he is taking the children on his own. What if a child fell/ needed medical/ first aid attention.

Thank you all for responding.

The groups are between 7-10 kids to just 1 staff member (Age 5+) From my understanding if it’s a trip outside the nursery then there should be 2 staff members for that. I’m going clarify tomorrow if it’ll be just the 1 staff taking them out and then go from there.

I know they won’t starve without a snack it’s the fact I’m paying for one to be provided and have an overly starving DC who’s expecting to have a snack between lunch at 12.00 and being picked up at 4.30-5!

To whoever got offended by the word “tactile”.. I’m not sure what your problem is when the definition is someone who uses touch a lot? He is tactile.

You’re all absolutely right to point out that I identified the fact that he is male. As I said, overall I feel that he has a positive influence on the place. I do take on board the comments and thank you for them. However, I do have concerns and don’t see the other staff picking up school age children like that, little kids, yes of course but not 6 year olds. There is a distinction between comforting a child who is upset/needs to be comforted, and have play that involves picking up/body to body. The kids can romp about all they like with one another.

I would expect those with public sector Child Protection will appeciate what I’m talking about.

I work within child protection and I think you’re being very unreasonable about the hug thing. So it’s ok if they’re 4 or 5, but not 6? And that child was asking for a hug and he reciprocated-not like he’s going up and asking for cuddles that aren’t wanted.

My DS’s have had two male nursery workers (now just the one) and they’re both amazing. The one who’s left in particular my oldest son took a real shine to and the way this man treats my son when he sees him today absolutely warms my heart.

The hugs wouldn't bother me in the slightest and neither would the snack thing unless they are asking and being denied something you have paid for.

The trips if they are outside ratio is an issue. They should always be within ratio, more so when outside the controlled environment of the nursery. The timing would depend for me on the overall timing of the club. If it finishes at 6pm for example and you have decided to pick up early and they aren't back until just before finish. That wouldn't bother me, if it was important that I collect early that day I would have advised them in advance so my child didn't go on the outing. If they are getting back after they close then that would be annoying but unusual as usually parents being late is more of an issue.

I would expect those with public sector Child Protection will appeciate what I’m talking about.

I work in a nursery/after-school care setting. 6 year olds are little kids.

The ratios could be different if he's a qualified teacher. It would be bad practise to take them out alone, but he might not be breaching the ratio. They should have a policy on trips though that you can see.

And the female staff also get cuddles and even kisses from/give to my children and it’s never bothered me. They spent/spend two and a half days of the week with them, if they hadn’t felt comfortable with a hug or whatever it would bother me more. These people aren’t strangers, they’ve been massively important in my children’s development.

No touch policies are pretty out of date IMO - I co-own an ASC, and we don't have one, instead our staff are trained on appropriate contact. Contact should always be child led, and shouldn't occur without another adult present. That's clearly not the case here. We have male staff and they do have physical contact with the children when appropriate - and that includes hugs. A good member of staff will be responsive and make sure that the children are in control.

Outings; the ratio issue might be different for you but here the ratio requirement of two staff present applies on premises. It doesn't apply when you're out in public - we have been inspected and had this confirmed btw.

Pickups issue seems disorganised...but...we do issue a timetable of planned outings and tell parents that pickup is between 5 and 6, if they need earlier pickup they need to prearrange as we might not be there. It's also in our handbook and contracts. We regularly get parents coming early anyway.

And I think the policy is 1 adult to 8 kids when they’re over 5? I might be wrong, feel free to correct me anyone more in the know.

Also initially felt positively about the fact that he is male. He seems more enthusiastic and energetic than some of the women who work there.
Sexist nonsense.

If he's hugging kids in front of other adults, there is no suggestion of anything sinister. I think your reaction is a product of recent events.

If the kids are over 5 then they are not nursery age so nursery ratios do not apply.

I did a school placement at a nursery and I and even staff there were not allowed to hug the children. I would think it's also strange if he takes them off on his own. Defo have a word with staff.

I don't think there's anything odd about it being a male in terms of what you wrote (there's only one point that relates to his gender really) and the ratio problem would depend on how laid back your community is.

I don't think the hugs are anything to be concerned about to be honest. The child initiated it, so he wasn't doing it against her will. Just because she is 6 doesn't mean she doesn't need a hug occasionally.

At school, we are told that if a child hugs us, to keep it short but not to reject them, and I often hug reception age children when they are upset. As long as it isn't happening behind closed doors, it's not an issue.

For the trips, I would check, as a childminder I could look after 6 children on my own, including 3 under 5s.

As others have said ratios for school aged children are not the same as for smaller children. He may also have qualifcations which mean he can care for more 3 or 4 year olds than someone with just a level 3.

Perhaps there’s jurisdictional differences here? We’re not in England btw.

I am grateful to hear the different perspectives.

And yes, there is a difference between a pre-school child and a p2 child Mono.

There’s plenty of ways to be warm, engaging and affectionate while still being professional. You don’t have to be hoisting someone’s DC onto your hip.

To clarify (for the last time) I would not bat an eyelid if the kid had grazed her knee and he sat her on his knew. Or even if the DC was being upset and needed to be comfort. Also I think he is well meaning, I would pull him aside and complain to HIM verbally in the first instance, not make any wild accusations. Ty!

6 year olds are still little. My friends 6 year old constantly wants to be picked up/cuddled by me. Ok that's a personal friendship but I do work in childcare and he's not unusual in that age group. They want to sit on your lap, hug you round the waist, get a cuddle. Obviously I'm not going to get into any situations that could be misinterpreted (Or do my back in) but how damaging would it be to push away a child or tell them they were behaving wrongly to show affection.

6 years on the planet...it's nothing really is it?

1. Wouldn’t bother me. The child initiated it, and you wouldn’t be bothered if it was a woman.

1. If you’re correct about not sticking to ratios and not having two adults while out and about, this is worth complaining about. But you should ask for clarification first, not go in all guns blazing

1. Find out if it’s even true first. Then find out if it bothers your child. If they’re not fussed then let it go, if they’re complaining of being starving then ask that the staff make sure to offer them their snack but it may be that DC is distracted by fun activities so doesn’t realise they’re hungry til you pick them up and the fun stops.

And I think the policy is 1 adult to 8 kids when they’re over 5? I might be wrong, feel free to correct me anyone more in the know.

The recommended ratio is 1:8, but depends on the qualifications of your staff. It can be higher.

On the other hand is there any way the girl could be related to him? I dont think my dc would be able to walk past me without wanting a cuddle if i worked with them.

In my experience the reverse happens, we had a situation where the whole family, parents and two daughters, were in the same school, they never spoke to us. As they were being taken to lunch apparently our youngest would bow her head when she walked by my door, then carry on chatting!

I hate to say it Kalalaka as I'm a pretty strident feminist, but I do generally see a difference in how the male staff vs the female staff play with the kids. And that's despite us hiring some very sporty women!

I think it's down to socialisation, no doubt, but as a rule the guys to tend to be very boisterous and outgoing whereas generally the women are less so.

Are you in Scotland OP?