AIBU to complain about male nursery manager?

[Barnabix]

DD’s nursery has a relatively new manager (male). DD is school age, so attends as after-school and holiday care.

He seems good in a number of respects. He has implemented a couple of activities for the kids on certain days during the week, e.g. one day per week the nursery hire the local hall and the kids get to play football there instead of being cooped up in the nursery.

I think this is good. Also initially felt positively about the fact that he is male. He seems more enthusiastic and energetic than some of the women who work there.

Here are my questions to you wise ladies:

1.AIBU to find this creepy? Twice now I’ve seen him pick up and cuddle one of DD’s friends (6 years old). In a playful way, she’s come up to him and sort of put her arms up asking for her to pick him up. It just doesn’t sit well with me. It would be totally different if it was a baby/toddler. This is a school age child who needs boundaries.. especially in physical contact with caregivers e.g. teachers? He might be well meaning, but what about if someone in the future wasn’t, and this girl thinks its okay for grown men to be cuddling her .. teachers of 4/5 year olds aren’t supposed to hug their pupils, so why should he?
Also, if he does that when I’m there, how tactile is he when I’m not..?

1. I really don’t think he sticks governmental requirements of staffing ratios and requirements when he takes the kids on little outings. E.g. for a walk round the village etc. I think he takes them himself when strictly speaking it should be 2 adults. He also never gives ETA of when they’ll be back, so twice now I’ve come to collect DD and been left waiting 15/20 mins for them to get back. AIBU to think he should issue a timetable in advance of what they’re doing? Or even say in the morning “we won’t be back till 5.15pm today because we have X planned”. It seems obvious to me that you would just plan to always be back by say 4pm when parents start to do pick ups ?!
2. I don’t even know if they get their afternoon snack when they’re on these adventures. It all just seems pretty last minute. Although I like the fact they’re outside and doing stuff obviously.

Am i being too pedantic?!

On the occasions where I’ve been waiting for their return, it has been just this 1 staff member coming in with all the kids. That is why I believe it is likely to be the case. Certainly intend to clarify this though.

The trips themselves haven’t concerned me. What has concerned me is that if he doesn’t adhere to the ratios, what else does he not adhered to?

That is concerning because of the obvious safety issues.

Taking all that together with the other things, is what leads to the overall concern. It’s hard to describe the situation unless you’re there and can see it :)

Barnabix can you confirm which country you are in? There's a few posters who work in childcare who would be in a much better position to advise you if they knew which set of regs would be applying.

A 6yr old asked for a hug which they got in full view of everyone else... call the police!
6yr olds are atill very young and need reassurance and hugs sometimes. There isnt a cut off point where kids dont to be honest. As long as its child led and open there is no big deal.

Ffs there wouldnt be any question if the person was female.

After school ratios are different so you need to check your facts before making accusations.

As a cm i can take 6 kids out, more if they are a certain age and i have self adjusted numbers and can prove to regulating body i have space and safety covered.

The timings thing would annoy me if i was expecting to pick up a child at a certain time and wanted to be somewhere but was hanging around waiting. They need to do an activities rota or let specific parents know where they are going and what time they will be back or where to pick up kids from. Some parents may not be able to go elsewhere to pick up the kids they have to take this into account and be back in time.
If timings were irrelevant i would be happy my kids were having a great time out and about and not cooped up all day.

I wouldn't be okay with someone taking my child offsite and coming back whenever they wanted. I'm really surprised at how few people on this thread would have a problem with turning up to collect your child and having to wait 20 mins for them to come back and you haven't a clue where they've been.

Glass I don't entirely disagree there - but based on previous experience I have seen parents turning up before agreed pick up time when kids aren't there. I've seen parents sign their child up for a full day trip then turn up at 3:30 and be like "why aren't they here I want to pick them up"!

We tell parents from the word go that if it's a nice day we'll try to take children to the park (for example) so pickup is between 5 and 6, and they've signed consent to cover this but they won't know that we're going to take them on a particular day until they come to collect.

If he's consistently pitching up during the agreed collection period then he's disorganised and needs to sort himself out.

@Barnabix How many times have you witnessed him coming back alone? Are you really quite certain that he's out alone? Have you asked your DS?

Are they walking trips or do they have a minibus? Where do they go?

Is he the manager of the after school care or of the whole nursery/ask care set up?

They might sound silly questions but the fact he's the manager means you might need to think about this differently than if it was a staff member.

Are you in Scotland? It'd be easier to recommend who to contact if you told us, though I'd understand if you don't want too. Have you checked their most recent inspection report? Or had a look to see if there have been any complaints listed on care inspectorate?

DD sorry

School teacher hug children, so not sure where that has come from..? That’s not an issue really.
The early picking up would be irritating but if you’re booked in until 5.30pm day, he may just not realise that you sometimes want to pick up early. That’s not complaint worthy, just have a discussion with him about it.
Ratios should be kept to, ask them what they do about ratios. If it is outside the legal requirements then you should complain.

In nursery, reception and even in year 4 my DC cuddle their teachers because they love them. DD doesn't do it in year 5, but that comes from her because she's starting puberty and her teacher's male.

"It's the overfamiliarity..."

What overfamiliarity?

He is there in loco parentis. Children NEED physical contact and affection. Some children spend more awake time with their childcare providers than with their parents. Do you think that they should be affection starved during those times? You're being ridiculous.

Regardless of ratio there should always be more than 1 member of staff present for case of emergency or accident/injury for example

Where is the legal basis for that please?

If there is one, how do childminders manage?

What has concerned me is that if he doesn’t adhere to the ratios, what else does he not adhered to?

Depending on his qualifications and the age of the children in his care, he may very well be adhering to ratios. Why not just ask what they are?

My DS(6) is hugged by staff at school, for various reasons it's important that they accept her need to be hugged by adults who care for her - I would be less than happy if she approached a male worker for a hug and was redirected or refused on the basis that it was in some way overfamiliar. The rejection for her would be incredibly shameful and there are other ways to teach her about personal space - him not accepting her hug would be harmful to her at this stage in her development.

Give him a break.

It's not unusual and it shouldn't be wrong to hug a child, but I'm surprised at the picking up of a six-year old.

I hug my DGC all the time, but I don't pick them up much and nor do their other relatives, because they just seem to old for that. (even though they might still sit on my lap!)

you really think a paedophile would hug a child in front of another adult ?

Well, yes, actually. It's quite likely that they would engage in lots of 'harmless', 'innocent' physical contact in front of other adults to elicit just such a response as the one above.

Not saying that is the case here. But things have happened in plain sight.

Would it sit "ok" with you for a female nursery teacher to cuddle the six year old though? That's the only issue I'm seeing, he's male?

However, number two is a problem and should really be reported if accurate.

@donkeyoil and OP.

I’ll try not to be too outing but I have recently moved from somewhere near London. My child’s old school had a male teacher (luckily not in my child’s class) who had a child sitting on his lap at the school play in front of other parents. Another teacher expressed concern. He also helped and supervised kids getting changed and picked them up for cuddles. To this day, my friends daughter says he was her favourite teacher as he was so lovely. A mum or two said they didn’t want a man supervising their little girls getting changed and the old ‘sexism’ ‘just because he hugs them, just because he’s a man’ comments got trotted out.

Guess who just got found guilty of a string of child sex offences including touching and taking upskirt pics of his pupils? In PLAIN SIGHT of all the adults.

It’s in the news. He is awaiting sentencing. I will never ever allow a male teacher to supervise a child changing or allow them to sit on laps, hugs again. Those poor parents trusted him and have to live with the fact they handed over their child to him every day. A teacher with good intentions should KNOW that physical contact of that sort it a no no for their own protection as well as the children.

And to JellyCats, people that work with children are taught to pat heads or shoulders in return for requests from kids for hugs. That way they are not rejecting them or causing them emotional harm but hugging children, picking them up or sitting on laps is dangerous territory and Ill advised.

you really think a paedophile would hug a child in front of another adult Well, yes, actually. It's quite likely that they would engage in lots of 'harmless', 'innocent' physical contact in front of other adults to elicit just such a response as the one above

Yes. That is actually exactly what they do. It's not all jumping out from behind trees and puppies in vans

It's "nice" people you know.

I’ll try not to be too outing but I have recently moved from somewhere near London. My child’s old school had a male teacher (luckily not in my child’s class) who had a child sitting on his lap at the school play in front of other parents. Another teacher expressed concern. He also helped and supervised kids getting changed and picked them up for cuddles. To this day, my friends daughter says he was her favourite teacher as he was so lovely. A mum or two said they didn’t want a man supervising their little girls getting changed and the old ‘sexism’ ‘just because he hugs them, just because he’s a man’ comments got trotted out

The same happened to my school

I teach early years and so most of the children in my school had me as their first teacher... even now children aged 8 or 9 will run up to me and give me a hug enthusiastically! They are children! Please dont make something innocent more than it is!

I would mention ratios and pick up times though!

I work in this sector, if he is educated to level 6 (degree level) he can be responsible for 13 3+ year olds so he may not be out of ratio (whether or not that ratio is ridiculous is another issue). I would bring up the late returns though, they need to be back for pick up time, I’m sure they would charge you if you were late!

OP can you specify why you needed to say he is male. Attitudes like this mean that men are disciuraged feom working in childcare. If this was a woman would you feel the same? There is nothing in law stopping hugging. Children need to be hugged. My son loved his male nursery worker best. I dont hink anything of it. I think its a good balance to have male and female staff?

If you compare the two cases of female workers abusing children to the several dozens of men doing it over the last decade, that might explain why being a man might have been mentioned.

It’s not women being sexist that has caused this. It is the numerous men who deliberately work in child care to gain access to children for the wrong reasons who cause the problem for other male childcare workers.