To think it’s wrong of this man to film a child?

[MrsA2015]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5391341/Passenger-films-toddlers-eight-hour-tantrum-flight.html

I can see why he filmed it but for it to be put on the net is too far! I feel quite sorry for the mother she must have felt mortified

Or a trip to the Dr regarding sedatives.

It's also not good for the child to be in a constant heightened state of anxiety for all that time.

But it would be nice to be able to go somewhere.

Lettucepray
Exactly, inclusion should be for everyone, not just a few.

As much as I believe that inclusion should be for everyone. There are places and situations that are never going to be inclusive to everybody due to their nature and the nature of various disabilities.

One child's needs does not trump the needs of everyone on that place, I am a parent of two children with SN and I can see that. We wod love to go to Disney world Florida, DS 6 has a developmental delay, can be quite noisy and disruptive, so we know that we will probably have to wait a few years until he can deal with an 8 hour flight. Dd is older nowxand is able to cope much better, she will watch films and listen to music, she can also read her books.

If we needed to go somewhere, I would go to DS Paediatrician and ask for a sedative.

When people talk about inclusion they don't include the severely learning disabled. As devilish said they aren't considered human enough to count.

To calm him down and take the edge off for his own sake and those of other passengers.

Aeroflotgirl ds will never fly anywhere or go to Disney or do anything like that. That doesn't bother me. Him being stuck indoors as an adult because people object to his presence in cafes or the swimming pool or any other 'normal' places does. It's bloody depressing.

inclusion should be for everyone, not just a few

That is a lovely sentiment but the devil's in the detail. People's needs are not always compatible and sometimes someone has to give way. And, as you can see from this thread, deciding where the lines lie isn't clear cut.

If a child has a disability that makes them that distressed, they shouldn't be on an 8 hour flight, surely?

BarbarianMum

Yes definitely that line is very blurred. I think we all need to think outside of ourselves but I see a tendency for some to not do this, on principle that their needs and wants are always the most important thing.

spikey massive hugs, I totally agree with you there. He should be able to go where he wants without people objecting or staring or commenting. It's his community as much as everyone else's. I agree with the saying, I wouldent change my child for the world, but I woukd change the world for my child. I have a friend who's ds goes to tge same special ASD school as dd, who has given up tge dream of even flying short haul flights, because her DS 10 just would not ope and woukd be violent and meltdown in the airport and on the plane.

On flights it is more tricky, as its in a confined space, you have nowhere to get out from, it's a flight risk if the child or person is violent or jumping all over the plane, yiu als have other passengers in that confined space.

If a child or adult has a severe disability that makes them noisy or disruptive where can they go?

I'd say pretty much anywhere where it isn't a prerequisite that you sit still and be quiet. Cafe, swimming pool, shops, park, bus, train etc. Probably not in a hushed fine dining restaurant or to see Placido Domingo at the Royal Opera House where people have paid £££££££ for tickets. Or on a plane for 8 hours where its a lose lose situation and everyone is upset.

I agree. Fine swimming pool, etc. But serious theatre production for example full of dialogue does need quiet.

I've had people pull faces about ds ( who is 12) making repetitive noises and banging with his hands whilst sitting in an sn buggy. Perhaps they don't "buy the whole disabled thing" either. I think it would be more obvious with a non verbal 12 year old, the boy in the film looked to be 2 or 3? If a two year old is that upset I wouldn't particularly expect them to be speaking clearly, they might but it wouldn't strike me as odd if they weren't.

My point wasn't that I don't buy the whole disabled thing but that sn kids seem to get blamed for everything, so people might say they don't want to travel with a sn child on a plane after seeing that film when it could be a nt child who hasn't been taught appropriate behaviour (I'm not blaming them by the way, I clearly said the child I knew who would have behaved like that wasn't at fault and I don't think a sn child would be at fault either.) I have known some beautifully behaved sn kids and I don't think sweeping generalisations are fair.

My local cinema does screenings aimed at sn adults and children, not so dark, lower volume, people tolerant as they know what to expect. I'm tempted to go as I find the volume too high at the cinema.

Granny the don't buy the whole disabled thing was in reference to someone else's comment. I am sorry if you thought it referred to you.

I agree granny if the nt child is being noisy and disruptive, I would not take them on planes until their behaviour improves. Its hard dealing with that in a confined space, but to have the stares and glares from people, its just not worth the stress.

This was me.
Well, not this flight, but a shorter one, thank god.
Ds age 6 went on a plane for the first time, and loved every minute. Calm, looked out the window, flipped through the in-flight magazine, didn't mind any of the noise etc as he had his teddy. Perfect child as you'd hope.
Way home, again fine except for when granny started winding him up by promising him a 'surprise' which always worried him. It was around this time we started to suspect he might have autism. But apart from a few sniffles in the queue for passport control, nothing any other passenger would have noticed. And the paed assessors referred him for autism assessment but the referral was rejected, as he was chatty and acing school.

So last year we were looking forward to holiday with 8yo. So was he. All fine, until he and sibling had a fight over buying a magazine in the terminal, the only coffee place took forever, and we got on the plane with relief.
At which point ds was upset that his magazine did not live up to expectations and there was a bit of kerfuffle, but then he sat by the window quietly sulking.
And then somehow he didn't notice the plane take off, was furious, and began screaming.

And screaming. As soon as the seat belt sign went off we got him onto my lap but it didn't help beyond muffling the sound for others slightly. A stewardess came to ask me to keep him quiet as other passengers had complained. Though once I'd snapped "I'm trying!" and could see the whole family were trying to distract him, she was very kind and said she would tell the other passengers they would have to put up with it. Tried to take him to the loo but he didn't want and I didn't want him flailing and hurting anyone.
He was still going once we were off the plane. Eventually DP dragged him and brother into the loos, and five minutes later they all came out and ds said excitedly "We're in (country) now!!"
He was a perfect child for the whole holiday, unfazed by all sorts of things.

Obviously we were terrified about the flight home, but ds was in total denial that he'd had any issue on the way over and was still convinced he loved planes!
So we told all the kids they couldn't buy anything as all comics wouldn't be in English, ensured he went to the toilet, and then went for shameless bribery with chocolate cake and lots of spare chocolate bars just in case. And talked the chocolate-covered child through the plane moving, takeoff, etc.

Result - happy child and other passengers and the crew who had clearly been warned. The couple who tutted about a spoilt child eating so much cake can fuck off.

It was that incident that convinced the paed to re-refer him and he did, two years later, get a diagnosis of autism, but at the time everyone insisted he had no special needs at all.

Thanks Spikeyball, maybe I was being sensitive so sorry for the mix up.

Aeroflotgirl, I don't think a NT child should be behaving like that and I wouldn't want to cope with it on a plane but the child I referred to had a mother who seemed oblivious to it. To be fair she did have bad PND after the birth and I honestly don't know if she was on some sort of medication for several years but she didn't seem to notice. The good thing was that once he was at school he very quickly learned what was acceptable and thinking back the mother did seem much better so maybe it was a sort of chicken and egg thing with mother not coping, child misbehaving because of mother not coping and child's behaviour making mother cope even less? Thinking about it now it does make sense as if the child visited us without the mother he was generally OK, bit given to temper tantrums but nothing horrific but if mother stayed it was awful.

Ds is now 10 and hasn't had a screaming meltdown at all for 18 months, as he says it's easier just to curl up and not speak when he's upset. Ideally under a table.
So we may well go on a plane this summer...

BothersomeCrow No one should undermine the power of bribery with chocolate cake and chocolate bars. My DIL was always very strict about chocolate but we went to a school play for eldest GD and the little GS wasn't really well so fractious 2 year old. I asked if I could give him some chocolate buttons, I'd bought one of those big bags with about 10 or 12 little bags in it. As they play went on DS and DIL were asking me for buttons and thanking the lord I had more. It isn't often granny gets praised for bringing chocolate!

BothersomeCrow sounds like he is a sensible boy who has found what works for him.